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Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=5689		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  pbiancardi [ 16 Oct 2015, 11:54 ]
Post subject:  Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
There is so much info that I have been reading in various places but it is very difficult to figure out what is current and what is outdated. I am trying to go from my LD player (currently a free CLD-S303) to my HDTV (Samsung UN46D7000 1080p model) with the best results possible.

So we start with the first step in the chain which is LD player, I know my current one can get better, I am working on that. I have a CLD-D750 on the way and am always on the lookout for a better model at a reasonable price, so for the moment lets ignore the obvious get a better player suggestion.

I have tried going direct from LD composite to HDTV composite input but was not really happy with the results (lots of noise / artifacts / ghosting / crosstalk / off colors).

I purchased a Key Digital KD-VPHD2 scaler / processor on eBay and just got it hooked up yesterday, better but I am still not really satisfied, I still feel like things are kind of out of focus and that the colors are off.

I just purchased a Panasonic DMR-ES15 DVD recorder on eBay because that seems to be a common suggestions (not sure if this is still current advice or if there is something better), I will just resell it if it does me no good.

So my idea is LD composite out -->DMR-ES15 composite in-->DMR-ES15 SVideo out-->KD-VPHD2 Svideo in-->KD-VPHD2 HDMI @ 1080p out-->TV with the idea that the ES15 provides the comb filter, the scaler provides the deinterlacer and upconversion and the TV is just the display. Does this make sense? Should I use the ES15 component out instead of Svideo?

Is there any more current or better way that I should be looking at trying, I am all for experimenting until I get the result I am happy with. I have been reading about DPS-290 being used somewhere in the chain also, can anyone explain what that would provide and how it would integrate in everything?
Author:  elahrairrah [ 16 Oct 2015, 14:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
You can try the component from the DVD recorder. I have an ES25 (same model as the ES15, save for the addition of an HDMI output.) I've found that the DVD recorder does a pretty good job of converting composite color space to component though you might have to toggle the brightness and contrast settings a bit as the recorder darkens the LD picture slightly.

If you can get your hands on a "Video Essentials" disc, that will walk you step by step on getting the color and brightness settings right. It's a MUST when trying to get a good LD picture on an HD display.

There are a few on ebay right now for a decent price:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_ ... _sacat=381
Author:  pbiancardi [ 16 Oct 2015, 16:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
elahrairrah wrote:
You can try the component from the DVD recorder. I have an ES25 (same model as the ES15, save for the addition of an HDMI output.) I've found that the DVD recorder does a pretty good job of converting composite color space to component though you might have to toggle the brightness and contrast settings a bit as the recorder darkens the LD picture slightly.

If you can get your hands on a "Video Essentials" disc, that will walk you step by step on getting the color and brightness settings right. It's a MUST when trying to get a good LD picture on an HD display.

There are a few on ebay right now for a decent price:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_ ... _sacat=381


I already have those on my watch list :D thanks. So my concept for setup sounds ok?
Author:  elahrairrah [ 16 Oct 2015, 16:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
Sounds okay, but you have to understand that it's never going to be perfect. What you setup now to make the picture look good with the current player, might not look so good with the other LD player you'll be getting. Composite analog video is a fickle thing when trying to send it to a new digital display (and those displays are optimized for digital pictures--analog backward compatibility is little more than an afterthought when they were manufactured.)

So it takes a bit of trial and error when getting a pleasant picture. It can be one, but don't give up! Just keep trying.
Author:  rein-o [ 17 Oct 2015, 02:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
pbiancardi wrote:
I have tried going direct from LD composite to HDTV composite input but was not really happy with the results (lots of noise / artifacts / ghosting / crosstalk / off colors).

OK first off I just want to correct you. Crosstalk is an issue with disc and player NOT via composite and won't go away with a scaler.
It will be better on certain players and players that have been correctly adjusted, some 704s and other models were not even
properly calibrated from the factory.

As for all your other issues you can only get as good as the 20+ year old dead format can give.
The rest is trial and error.
Good luck and enjoy.
________________________________
the rein-o official signature:


Image
Author:  pbiancardi [ 19 Oct 2015, 11:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
I finally managed to get a decent player at a good price - Pioneer Elite CLD-59.

So I am going to experiment with that player with or without the DVD recorder and see how it goes.

I think I found another trick, I had my TV set to 16:9 which was filling my screen left to right but if I set it to "screen fit" it does not quite fill the screen left to right but is better quality. I think that means the TV is just displaying 1:1 what my video scaler is sending it so I am guessing that is better than having the TV process the image also.
Author:  audioboyz1973 [ 19 Oct 2015, 13:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
I'm pretty sure you're right about the TV setting there.

My other display is a small Samsung; and the DVDO I use has test patterns built in to ensure you're selecting the mode on the TV that displays the input 1:1 without the TV doing any scaling. I just checked and 'screen-fit' is what I set it to using those.

The scaler you're using might have a zoom function which would then allow you to adjust the picture to fill the screen.

As for the rest just experiment and see what looks best.
Author:  pbiancardi [ 21 Oct 2015, 13:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
I got the DMR-ES15 and wow what a difference that makes. Picture is much cleaner and clearer, this is what LD should look like.

I used component to go from ES15 to my scaler which seems to look better than S-Video. I am hoping to get a little bit more of a picture improvement when the Pioneer Elite CLD-59 arrives this week then I should be all good. I now feel I am at near DVD picture quality (real DVD not upscaled DVD).
Author:  audioboyz1973 [ 21 Oct 2015, 13:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
Congratulations on your new found satisfaction!

Comb filtering, de-interlacing and scaling quality all influence the outcome (and not to forget that with analogue signals more apparently than digital, cabling makes a difference - something I was very much reminded of when I scored some really quite good s-video cables off e-bay dirt cheap). In your case it would seem the DMR-ES15 has a better comb filter than either the LD player you're using or the scaler, which isn't so surprising considering the player/scaler involved.

I found the process of getting a good picture which started with "Geez I don't remember LD looking this bad" to now having something that can be compared to DVD in terms of detail on the projector really quite gratifying. Took lots of internet searching, reading and learning, some trial and error, definitely an evolution of equipment along the way (a few dead ends there), and still somewhat ongoing.
Author:  ace2184 [ 09 Nov 2015, 23:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
Sometimes I think about caving and picking up a DVD recorder, just to see if a difference is truly notable. I guess my main concern is do they all upscale or do some just act as a pass through? I run across them locally either in thrift stores or being sold on craigslist, etc. Some people want $20, others want $100. I guess I don't know enough to know what to look for. Panasonic seem to be a popular opinion, should I stick with that? Should I stay away from Sony players of worth checking out? I think that's enough rambling for post.
Author:  elahrairrah [ 09 Nov 2015, 23:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
I can only tell you the results I've gotten with the DVD recorders that I've used. I've chronicled them here in this post:

http://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?p=30670#p30670

So far I like to use the Panasonic DMR-ES25/15 as it has a decent 3D comb filter and can record on dual layer discs (albeit a little clumsily.)

I've kicked around the idea of trying out a Sony DVD recorder in the hopes that it might have the same comb filter that they've included in their hi-end WEGA TVs, but that's pretty wishful thinking.
Author:  ace2184 [ 09 Nov 2015, 23:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
Thanks for that elahrairrah. Will give me something to look for. I'm not expecting perfection watching laserdiscs in 2015 on a new HDTV, but if i can make the image a little more palatable I'll be happy.
Author:  ace2184 [ 11 Nov 2015, 01:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
So I picked up a Sony RDR-GXD455 DVD recorder for $20. I figured worse case scenario I'm out $20. My Thoughts after trying it out:

1) As far as scaling it to my tv, I'd say it does a better job than I expected, especially compared to the limited options my tv has. In the past I had just settled with leaving the imagine in the center of the tv, and was okay with that, but this Sony scales it pretty decently to my tv without cutting off any of the picture, pretty happy about that.

2)Scaling aside, I'd say the picture quality isn't any better, maybe even a smidge worse? I wish I was technical as some of the other members here, the only way I can describe it is it seems more processed? Like it going through the HDMI is adding something to the picture? If that's the case I'm not sure I care for it. There's also the possibility I don't have the picture calibrated properly.
Author:  elahrairrah [ 11 Nov 2015, 04:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
It's possible the upscaling from that recorder increases the sharpness and/or brings in edge enhancement.
Author:  ace2184 [ 11 Nov 2015, 09:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
elahrairrah wrote:
It's possible the upscaling from that recorder increases the sharpness and/or brings in edge enhancement.


I believe you're correct. I was screwing around with the settings and notice the resolution was set on auto. I tried it on 1080i and then tried it on 720p. On 720p the picture looks considerably better than the other two settings. I'm sure there are more tweaks that can be done, but with my player running into the dvd recorder with composite, and then into my tv with HDMI, set at 720p, the image looks better than I was expecting to get. Worth the $20. My discs are watchable again :clap:
Author:  ace2184 [ 11 Nov 2015, 10:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
Follow up post before I hit the hay. Now that I have things figured out a little better, the only minor issue I have now is it wants to upscale and fit everything to the screen, which for me isn't what I want with full frame movies. In those cases I'm okay with pillar boxing. So far I've just decided in that instance the best thing is to plug the player directly into the tv? I guess I could try using component cables.
Author:  phoenixobia [ 05 Mar 2020, 17:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Getting the best out of my LD Player to HDTV.
I read all the posts and I think this method sounds promising. I still have a couple of questions though.

1. When you use the recorder only as passthrough to feed its playback into a PC capture device, is the output untouched or is it scaled? If scaled, can it be turned off so you get the untouched LD picture?
2. Does it output the native interlaced video or automatically deinterlaces it?

I want to use the recorder only as a good comb filter then do the deinterlacing and scaling after the capture. I am not sure if it is possible using a DVD recorder.

Would appreciate any info/experience you have on this.

Thanks
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