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 Post subject: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2021, 18:13 
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My player is a Marantz LV520 (D504 clone). My current signal path is as follows:

Player [Composite 480i 4:3]-> Marantz SR6011 AVR (Comb/AD/Deinterlace) [HDMI 480p 4:3]-> Epson HC4000 Projector (1080p 16:9 Scaling/Letterbox Zoom)-> Silver Ticket 128" 2.35:1 WVS AT Screen

As-is, this is the only signal path that works and allows letterbox zoom. The projector will only do letterbox zoom if fed 480p, and the AVR doesn't do letterbox zoom. It works well enough and I don't have any specific glaring complaints (no tearing, excessive noise, wonky colors, etc)... but I've been wondering for a while if an affordable stand-alone VP would yield better results? I've been watching for a deal on a VP20/30/50 for a while and haven't come across one in my price range. I passed on a Key Digital iSync HD months back and have regretted it... they've jumped up in price it seems, even higher than the DVDOs.

Right now I have an offer from a seller on Key Digital VP3HD, a predecessor to the iSync HD (same chassis) that should do everything I need (Comb/AD/Deinterlace/Scale/Letterbox Zoom) in one stop and also switch between Analog Audio, PCM/DTS, and AC3 audio (currently using both composite outputs from the player to 2 inputs on the AVR). I can grab it for $100 shipped including remote and power adapter.

I know there are some reviews from a while back on the iSync HD, but does anyone have an idea (or even gut feeling) on whether the VP3HD would be an improvement, or would it just be taking up rack space without any improvement?

Thanks in advance.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2021, 21:27 
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Personally, I would save the cash and keep an eye out for a better player.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2021, 05:28 
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Your marantz likely has better processing than this key digital. I wouldn’t even bother with DVDO. I would use the money in a better player as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2021, 17:19 
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What obtainable player would actually be an improvement? Even the LV520 was a stretch, and even then it only really fell into my price range due to having an inoperable front display (didn't bother me since I would have taped over it anyway).

D704 is only models that seem like a real upgrade that MIGHT be obtainable with the current market, or maybe a D703 if I'm willing to give up AC3 (which I would consider since removing my Rotel RDA-980 would help make room for an Adcom 2535 I picked up to drive my Atmos channels)... 79/97/99 are all way out of my price range given I spin maybe one LD per month. Honestly, a D704 or D703 probably is too.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2021, 18:15 
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Local LD prices are all over the place. Anywhere from free to extremely overpriced.

There are cheaper models than the CLD-D704 that would be an upgrade over the LV520 if you are basing things off eBay prices.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2021, 22:12 
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Such as, just so I know what to look for? If the LV520 (D504) is ~50db SNR, what's a step up without being D704 money?

I'm trying to look at all of this in the vein of something I spin once a month or so and not get roped into chasing (and paying for) a unicorn that just isn't getting used that much all because of a nostalgic interest and boredom. I don't really watch niche content, so there's nothing I can't watch on a higher quality format more easily and with less investment. I'm also fighting the fact that other improvements to my theater (mainly moving to a 128" 2.35:1 screen from a 106" 16:9 screen) is making LD even harder to continue to enjoy. And outside of moving the LD to the bedroom (60" 4K Samsung), I don't have anywhere else in the house to dedicate to a complete retro setup (CRT, '90s/2000s audio) either.

All of this is still all in the vein of enjoying the format more than enjoying the results, so I have to keep that in mind when allocating budget towards it. I pretty much set $200 as my cap for what I'd spend for a VP, so I'm going to keep that as my cap for what I'd consider spending on a player upgrade as well... which means I might stretch to $300 assuming I can net $100 from my LV520.

I've not come across anything locally (within 100 miles) and have had FBM and OfferUp notifications set for the last year or so, outside of a $200 CLD-59 which, to my knowledge, would have been pretty much identical to the LV520 (D504/604 clone) PQ wise. I do a good bit of Goodwill-ing and have NEVER come across a player, only a few discs occasionally mixed in with the Vinyl. I don't know that I want to start hitting estate sales just looking for LD... that seems like equally as big of a needle in a haystack.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2021, 23:22 
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shopkins82 wrote:
Such as, just so I know what to look for? If the LV520 (D504) is ~50db SNR, what's a step up without being D704 money?

I'm trying to look at all of this in the vein of something I spin once a month or so and not get roped into chasing (and paying for) a unicorn that just isn't getting used that much all because of a nostalgic interest and boredom. I don't really watch niche content, so there's nothing I can't watch on a higher quality format more easily and with less investment. I'm also fighting the fact that other improvements to my theater (mainly moving to a 128" 2.35:1 screen from a 106" 16:9 screen) is making LD even harder to continue to enjoy. And outside of moving the LD to the bedroom (60" 4K Samsung), I don't have anywhere else in the house to dedicate to a complete retro setup (CRT, '90s/2000s audio) either.

All of this is still all in the vein of enjoying the format more than enjoying the results, so I have to keep that in mind when allocating budget towards it. I pretty much set $200 as my cap for what I'd spend for a VP, so I'm going to keep that as my cap for what I'd consider spending on a player upgrade as well... which means I might stretch to $300 assuming I can net $100 from my LV520.

I've not come across anything locally (within 100 miles) and have had FBM and OfferUp notifications set for the last year or so, outside of a $200 CLD-59 which, to my knowledge, would have been pretty much identical to the LV520 (D504/604 clone) PQ wise. I do a good bit of Goodwill-ing and have NEVER come across a player, only a few discs occasionally mixed in with the Vinyl. I don't know that I want to start hitting estate sales just looking for LD... that seems like equally as big of a needle in a haystack.



Let me give you an example. I have a Pioneer HLD-X0, processed by a Lumagen Radiance 2144 and a Lumagen Radiance Pro 5348, all with upgraded linear power supplies and pure silver heavy shielded cables, running into a 77” Sony OLED. It is very difficult to watch an LD after watching a 4K disc or a Blu-ray on the same day, even with this setup which is difficult to top IMO. TV shows, Anime, and some demo discs look good enough but mainstream movies are barely passable.

For $200, you won’t see any significant enough improvements. Back in the day, it was only a couple of dozen of us here and maybe just a handful other lurkers looking for these deals. Such that, we would know the next day who bought that cheap CLD-95 which showed up on eBay. Today there is a ton more interest. I lost count on how many Laserdisc related groups are on Facebook. Hundreds of people have notifications setup and browsing local listings daily. All that knowledge for what to look for is out here on this and few other older forums. So knowing more than the next guy to look for those niche players and video processors isn’t really in the equation anymore. You must really like this format to be in it, maybe because it’s cool? Or nostalgia? not because it is cheap or its (not) high picture quality.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2021, 06:01 
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That's what my gut was telling me... I don't know that I'm going to find a better player without spending far more than is worthwhile given the content I watch and the frequency I watch it on LD. I was mostly responding to cplusplus saying there are players better than my LV520/D504 that cost less than a D704... I just can't, for the life of me, figure out what they might be.

I guess maybe a better use of time/money may be to stay on the hunt for an APD-1 or JBL/Lexicon RF Demodulator so I can pull the Rotel RDA-980 and MAYBE find room in the rack for the Adcom GFA-2535 I picked up to drive my Atmos channels. As little GOOD Atmos content as there is out there, I probably come across more of that these days than LDs I want to spin.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2021, 19:13 
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The other less mentioned CLD-D70x and CLD-30x0 (excluding CLD-3090) would all be upgrades.

CLD-D501, CLD-D502 might offer marginal PQ increase but still probably more substantial (and significant) than a low-cost VP. I remember recapping one of them and was surprised at PQ coming from a CLD-50x unit.

Just about any player on eBay is just going to be a ripoff.

For finding players: FBM, CL, OfferUp, etc. Have to check daily though. Search terms "laserdisk laserdisc laser disc laserdiscs laser disk" etc. Seems like half of my excellent finds have been not labeled with any of those though. Stuff like "old electronics" or "Pioneer".
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2021, 01:32 
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You're saying a D501/D502 would offer better PQ than a D504 (which is what the LV520 is)? I replaced a CL-3030 (that wouldn't flip reliably) with the LV520/D504, and felt it was noticeably sharper... maybe I prefer the sharpness of the newer players over the smoother/analog look of the full-analog-path players.

I can understand a D702/D703 being a PQ upgrade, I just have to decide if I'm willing to give up AC3 to get it... and find one I can afford.

I definitely have alerts set for the common misspellings... same for demodulators so I can hopefully replace the Rotel with a non-decoder model.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2021, 02:23 
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Yeah I feel there is two paths in LD. One for if you want sharper more digital look and one if you want softer more analog look.

Your Marantz would be much sharper than the CLD-3030 (this one is single sided, but CLD-3070/3080 also have smooth look)

AC-3 RF is nice to have, but I would look at as AC-3 RF can always be added on players that do not have it.

Going off memory the CLD-D501/D502 (can't remember which one) did look better than the CLD-D504. Less noise, but take that with a grain of salt since I looked at them months apart. The CLD-D501 through CLD-D503 are certainly built better than the CLD-D504+.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2021, 06:03 
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Sorry, it was the CLD-3070 I replaced... it wouldn't play side-b reliably when flipped, but side-a worked fine.

I think I've pretty much decided to leave things as they are and just continue the hunt for a reasonably priced Yamaha or JBL/Lexicon demodulator... any upgrade I can justify price-wise (either player or VP) doesn't seem that it's going to yield a huge improvement, especially since I'm handicapping any LD playback by blowing it up to 103" 16:9 or 128" 2.35:1.

There's a Lumagen XS3D for sale over on AVS for $425 that I considered for a brief second but, while it may be a very good deal, I just can't justify that expense or rack space for 1 disc a month.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 01 May 2021, 03:10 
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Well that didn't last long... after learning the cheap and easy-to-find Extron DSC-301 HD uses the same chipset as the Lumagens, I grabbed one from eBay for $80 shipped with the power supply. It's cheap enough to experiment with and sell it on if it doesn't add any benefit. The only major unknown is if it does proper letterbox zoom... I asked in all the other threads where it was mentioned but no one took the time to answer, so I guess I'll be the guinea pig.
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 Post subject: Re: Key Digital VPHD2 vs. Marantz AVR + Epson Projector
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 18:52 
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I got the Extron DSC-301 HD (along with a $4 Female RCA to BNC adapter from Amazon) earlier in the week and got it dialed in last night. It's definitely sharper in 1080p60 output than my combination of Marantz SR6011 AVR doing comb/AD/deinterlace over HDMI to my Epson 4000 projector scaling to 1080p and doing aspect ratio zoom. The added sharpness does bring out a little more noise, however.

I haven't tried letting the Extron output 480i and letting the Marantz or Epson scale from there yet, but it's on the to do list.
I'm going to experiment with both as it seems the Extron's deinterlacing isn't quite as good as the Marantz, but its Comb and possibly AD seems a bit better. I'll also experiment with letting the Marantz scale all the way to 4K60... the Epson projector defaults to the panel native 1080p when it receives a 1080p signal, but having the Marantz scale to 4K60 will, in turn, let the Epson engage its 4K shift as well.

The Extron doesn't have a specific letterbox zoom mode, only FOLLOW (native) and FILL (stretch)... but it does have full range horizontal and vertical size and position adjustment with 3 savepoints. Other calibration settings are pretty basic (Brightness/Contrast/Saturation/Hue/Sharpness) but I was able to dial things in pretty easily with Video Standard so I didn't have to make any adjustments on the projector (which has been ISF calibrated with both SDR and HDR savepoints).

So, all in all, nothing magical but I will say a worthy addition for the price paid ($80 shipped) and flexible solution for anyone with a digital display that lacks aspect ratio zoom, has subpar comb filtering, or otherwise needs a flexible (if not completely full-featured, no LUT or even individual color calibration) VP.
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