|
It is currently 19 Apr 2024, 23:28
|
View unsolved topics | View unanswered posts
|
|
|
|
mimylovesjapan
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 00:32 |
Advanced fan |
|
|
Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 01:43 Posts: 549 Location: Japan Has thanked: 26 times Been thanked: 56 times
|
Hello ! Wellcome to the LD community ! First, all will depends to what you are meaning by "good quality" and "bad quality". Because each people has different opinon in LD field, and their own likes/dislike. Color warm / cold, smearing, noise, sharpness, etc... LD is not a digital recored disc, then, you will never optain the render of a bluray or even good DVD. It will differ for each player, each filter, etc.
You can choose a player and upscaler depending on your own likes / dislikes. And sometimes it doesn't cost that much money.
What is your principal visual discomfort currently ?
_________________ LD-V4300D (PAL/NTSC) CLD-959 (NTSC) CXUHD (DVD/BD/UHD/SACD) Lumagen 2144 (scaler) Collection
|
|
|
|
|
pizmo
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 01:33 |
Honest fan |
|
|
Joined: 12 Jul 2018, 22:42 Posts: 64 Location: United States Has thanked: 3 times Been thanked: 2 times
|
mimylovesjapan wrote: Hello ! Wellcome to the LD community ! First, all will depends to what you are meaning by "good quality" and "bad quality". Because each people has different opinon in LD field, and their own likes/dislike. Color warm / cold, smearing, noise, sharpness, etc... LD is not a digital recored disc, then, you will never optain the render of a bluray or even good DVD. It will differ for each player, each filter, etc.
You can choose a player and upscaler depending on your own likes / dislikes. And sometimes it doesn't cost that much money.
What is your principal visual discomfort currently ? It's more then just soft focus and uneven color. Some movies are crystal clear. Other movies are filled with a lot of smearing and wavy vertical lines. It's seems to appear mostly with CLV discs of older movies. My clv copies of raiders of the lost ark, Tora Tora Tora, and Spartacus are the worst. The wavy lines, smearing, and extremely blotchy PQ makes the movies pretty much unwatchable. I think it is noise but I'm not sure. I don't think it's laser rot because I am not getting white specs all over the screen
|
|
|
|
|
pizmo
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 01:42 |
Honest fan |
|
|
Joined: 12 Jul 2018, 22:42 Posts: 64 Location: United States Has thanked: 3 times Been thanked: 2 times
|
sjoerg wrote: What size are you blowing up the image on your projector? you do realize that LD is a composite format, it only looks so good when it's enlarged especially on LCD.
A quick google search shows the dvdo indeed has a 2d comb filter, all processors should have a comb filter as far as I know, some work with LD better then others, the really good ones will cost you and are hard to find, I'd suggest sticking to what you have now and work on your settings to improve your picture. Yea I read that the dvdo has a 2d comb filter, but then I read in a bunch of places that only the vp50 and above have a comb filter. So it confused me. My screen size is 100in. I realize that laserdisc is not a DVD or bluray and that it is not going to have the same level of PQ (especially when blown up on a giant screen). Some movies are crystal clear while others seem to be filled with distortion (each vertical lines, blotchy picture, smearing, and horizontal lines coming off of text). My player doesn't seem to like CLV discs as these effects are the most noticeable on CLV.
|
|
|
|
|
signofzeta
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 02:01 |
Jedi Knight |
|
|
Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 5983 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1286 times Been thanked: 1102 times
|
Have you calibrated all your levels? Low, I mean? I ask because having brightness and color and contrast too high is THE way to make LD look bad. You can’t see the entire dynamic range of your TV by playing an LD, don’t try. Close the windows, turn off the lights, and turn that monster down to 90s levels. This takes place over a fancy comb filter or any gear at all.
Secondly, the M90 is a suck player on good day and you’ve never seen another LD player so you don’t even know if it’s doing as well as an M90 should. This will make things a lot harder.
Do you have a CRT TV in your house still? Any CRT TV? If so, hook it up to that. Otherwise you’ll never know what problems are 90s problems and which are brought on by the new gear. If it looks better on the CRT (wouldn’t surprise me) then we know something.
Lastly, I think there’s some kind of comb filter in there, there has to be to render the composite imagine, but don’t worry about it.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
|
|
|
|
|
signofzeta
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 02:03 |
Jedi Knight |
|
|
Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 5983 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1286 times Been thanked: 1102 times
|
rein-o wrote: Smear is inherent with LD, some more some less, some players more some players less. Some pressings more some pressings less etc.
As for wavy lines that sounds like cross talk or a bad cable, since its an M-90 I would say both. Smear is really hard to diagnose since it’s usually on the disc itself to some extent and unless someone had watched that disc and seen zero smear you’re never going to know where it comes from. However only CLV discs have crosstalk and that sounds like what he’s complaining of. An alignment is probably needed.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
|
|
|
|
|
pizmo
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 02:30 |
Honest fan |
|
|
Joined: 12 Jul 2018, 22:42 Posts: 64 Location: United States Has thanked: 3 times Been thanked: 2 times
|
signofzeta wrote: Have you calibrated all your levels? Low, I mean? I ask because having brightness and color and contrast too high is THE way to make LD look bad. You can’t see the entire dynamic range of your TV by playing an LD, don’t try. Close the windows, turn off the lights, and turn that monster down to 90s levels. This takes place over a fancy comb filter or any gear at all.
Secondly, the M90 is a suck player on good day and you’ve never seen another LD player so you don’t even know if it’s doing as well as an M90 should. This will make things a lot harder.
Do you have a CRT TV in your house still? Any CRT TV? If so, hook it up to that. Otherwise you’ll never know what problems are 90s problems and which are brought on by the new gear. If it looks better on the CRT (wouldn’t surprise me) then we know something.
Lastly, I think there’s some kind of comb filter in there, there has to be to render the composite imagine, but don’t worry about it. Yes I have already adjusted brightness, contrast, ect.. Unfortunately I do not have a crt to connect my player to. Although I have hooked up the player to every tv in my house and the same distortions on the same discs appear on every tv. I figured that the vp30 had some sort of filter in it, but I read in more then one place that only the vp50 and above have a comb filters and that you need to use a svhs or something with a good comb filter between the player and the vp30
|
|
|
|
|
pizmo
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 03:13 |
Honest fan |
|
|
Joined: 12 Jul 2018, 22:42 Posts: 64 Location: United States Has thanked: 3 times Been thanked: 2 times
|
signofzeta wrote: rein-o wrote: Smear is inherent with LD, some more some less, some players more some players less. Some pressings more some pressings less etc.
As for wavy lines that sounds like cross talk or a bad cable, since its an M-90 I would say both. Smear is really hard to diagnose since it’s usually on the disc itself to some extent and unless someone had watched that disc and seen zero smear you’re never going to know where it comes from. However only CLV discs have crosstalk and that sounds like what he’s complaining of. An alignment is probably needed. How would one go about performing an alignment? I'm a diesel tech by trade and should have all the tooling and skill required. I just need to know the procedures and specs. Where would one find such info?
|
|
|
|
|
mimylovesjapan
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 03:32 |
Advanced fan |
|
|
Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 01:43 Posts: 549 Location: Japan Has thanked: 26 times Been thanked: 56 times
|
pizmo wrote: mimylovesjapan wrote: Hello ! Wellcome to the LD community ! First, all will depends to what you are meaning by "good quality" and "bad quality". Because each people has different opinon in LD field, and their own likes/dislike. Color warm / cold, smearing, noise, sharpness, etc... LD is not a digital recored disc, then, you will never optain the render of a bluray or even good DVD. It will differ for each player, each filter, etc.
You can choose a player and upscaler depending on your own likes / dislikes. And sometimes it doesn't cost that much money.
What is your principal visual discomfort currently ? It's more then just soft focus and uneven color. Some movies are crystal clear. Other movies are filled with a lot of smearing and wavy vertical lines. It's seems to appear mostly with CLV discs of older movies. My clv copies of raiders of the lost ark, Tora Tora Tora, and Spartacus are the worst. The wavy lines, smearing, and extremely blotchy PQ makes the movies pretty much unwatchable. I think it is noise but I'm not sure. I don't think it's laser rot because I am not getting white specs all over the screen You will not take care of these problems (wave / smear) with any deinterlacer / comb filter etc... Smearing : Nothing can be change for smearing; If you don't like it, you can search for a smear low player. Expensive, and never had one, then cannot confirm it works. For exemple : Panasonic LX900 or Pionneer HLD-X9. You will have very low smearing on good players as CLD 959, I can confirm this. You also have to lower the black levels of your screen to take care of 50% of smearing. Waves : It depends. What sort of waves ? On all discs ? If it is the same on all disc, it can be a capacitor problem on video board (vertical light regular waves), or a misalignement of the pick up (crosstalk). For the vertical light waves, all the player has it as the capacitors are old. But the gravity depends of the player. And with a good setting of your screen (not too much sharpness, high noise filtering on your TV/Projector) you can take care of them (but the image will lose sharpness). Anyway, because buying any expensive video processor, you should search a good configuration in you actual setting, or search for a better player. CLD-97 (959) is a good reference. After finding a confortable image, you can increase the quality with video processor.
_________________ LD-V4300D (PAL/NTSC) CLD-959 (NTSC) CXUHD (DVD/BD/UHD/SACD) Lumagen 2144 (scaler) Collection
|
|
|
|
|
signofzeta
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 16:23 |
Jedi Knight |
|
|
Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 5983 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1286 times Been thanked: 1102 times
|
pizmo wrote: signofzeta wrote: rein-o wrote: Smear is inherent with LD, some more some less, some players more some players less. Some pressings more some pressings less etc.
As for wavy lines that sounds like cross talk or a bad cable, since its an M-90 I would say both. Smear is really hard to diagnose since it’s usually on the disc itself to some extent and unless someone had watched that disc and seen zero smear you’re never going to know where it comes from. However only CLV discs have crosstalk and that sounds like what he’s complaining of. An alignment is probably needed. How would one go about performing an alignment? I'm a diesel tech by trade and should have all the tooling and skill required. I just need to know the procedures and specs. Where would one find such info? You need a test disc and a scope, I’m pretty sure. I’ve never actually done it, always paid someone else. I DIY almost everything but this is one I leave to others. Not really because it’s massively difficult it’s just that I don’t have any if the stuff and other people who can still do the work are around. I’ll learn it eventually.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
|
|
|
|
|
pizmo
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 18:20 |
Honest fan |
|
|
Joined: 12 Jul 2018, 22:42 Posts: 64 Location: United States Has thanked: 3 times Been thanked: 2 times
|
sjoerg wrote: I won't claim to be an expert, but as far as I know anything that will take a composite signal will need to have some sort of a comb filter, or a notch filter at the very least. giving the modernity of your gear I'd guess 2d minimum. If your projector has a composite in it should have one as well, of course it would be bypassed in your current setup.
I think at this point if you want to go on I'd say before anything look for a better player, the m90 is not know for its quality, I wouldn't recommend an alignment on it, any time attempting to fix it would be much better spent looking for a better machine.
A good working CLD-503 or 504 are great players to start with. I'm not quite sure if I am ready to take the plunge into buying a new player just yet. However, there is a dvl-90 at a retro video and game store close to my house with a $200 price tag on it that is tempting me. From what I've read the dvl-90 is one of the best combo players ever made. I think I am inclined to agree with you that the poor picture quality of my clv discs are the result of a cheapo player. From what I've read and from what others have told me it seems that the m90 was a pretty low quality budget player even back when it was brand new and that it was marketed more as a music player then a video device.
|
|
|
|
|
pizmo
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 18:50 |
Honest fan |
|
|
Joined: 12 Jul 2018, 22:42 Posts: 64 Location: United States Has thanked: 3 times Been thanked: 2 times
|
signofzeta wrote: rein-o wrote: You need a test disc and a scope, I’m pretty sure. I’ve never actually done it, always paid someone else. I DIY almost everything but this is one I leave to others. Not really because it’s massively difficult it’s just that I don’t have any if the stuff and other people who can still do the work are around. I’ll learn it eventually.
I don't think it would be worth paying any one to align my m90 for me. But if I do bite the bullet and buy a better player is there any one you would recommend for future repairs?
|
|
|
|
|
pizmo
|
Post subject: Re: Need something with a comb filter. Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 21:07 |
Honest fan |
|
|
Joined: 12 Jul 2018, 22:42 Posts: 64 Location: United States Has thanked: 3 times Been thanked: 2 times
|
signofzeta wrote: The M90 wasn’t very good but it wasn’t broken. New it would have nearly zero crosstalk as would any player. If that’s the issue it would get way better with an alignment. Crosstalk itself looks terrible but more than that it’s ultimately more picture information for your scalers and whatnot to be confused by so it actually looks way worse on HDTV than a 20 year old tube.
Working properly the main issue with the M90 is video noise, which is about the same as S201, A100, and other cheap single sided early 90s decks.
There are a LOT of different LD players and really availability is key. The best player is one you don’t have to break in shipping. The retro game and video store near my house has a dvl-90 for sale for $200. That seems a little steep to me, but they sale on eBay for about $400-$500. Would you recommend buying the dvl-90 for $200?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
|