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 Post subject: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2019, 07:48 
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I bought a Sony DSC-1024G Digital Scan Converter with Gen-lock.

I have my LD player going composite into reference Video 1, my laptop with Substation Alpha running going into D-sub video 3 and then composite video out to my TV but I can't get the two signals to sync on screen.

I'm assuming I need a black burst signal generator for Video 1, then LD player into Video 2, Substation Alpha on PC into Video 3 and then I should be good? Do some gen-lock devices have an inbuilt black burst signal generator but mine doesn't right?

Here is the relevant page from the Sony manual:

Image
Image

Most grateful if you can help. Thanks.
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2019, 16:36 
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Very happy to see this.
While this is further along that what I have, can't you just ff to get it synced better?
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2019, 19:25 
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You want this for overlaying subtitles?
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 04:47 
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audioboyz1973 wrote:
You want this for overlaying subtitles?


Yeah he does. I'm curious to see if he can get it working as this is something that interests me as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 08:59 
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rein-o wrote:
Very happy to see this.
While this is further along that what I have, can't you just ff to get it synced better?


Sorry, rather than "sync" I meant combine or overlay I guess.

Apparantly from what I'm reading you need a "black burst signal" to combine two other signals, ie your LD signal and the signal from Sub Station Alpha?


Last edited by forper on 09 Dec 2019, 09:01, edited 1 time in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 08:59 
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audioboyz1973 wrote:
You want this for overlaying subtitles?


Yes
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 09:38 
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This is what I want to achieve:



However his genlock, a Coriogen Eclipse seems to generate its own black burst signal???

Confused... :think:
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 09:45 
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I know how much you love anything Sony; but it does seem this needs an external sync for the genlock function to work.

Also looking at the connection diagram I'm thinking this is only genlocking the computer video signal but that the device isn't actually capable of keying/overlay - in the scenario shown that would be done by the editing switcher.

There are some tried & tested boxes from TV One: the 1T-C2-150 and CS-450 (also branded 'Coriogen Eclipse' I believe). I have both and can confirm they both do the job.
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 10:03 
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I am also thinking that the SONY device you bought can not overlay subtitles onto a video signal on its own.
You will need additional devices to accomplish this.
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 11:20 
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Okay, thanks guys, guess I was optimistic with the low price of the Sony unit..

Probably looking at a TVOne CS-450 unit I think. If anyone has a link to a seller that will ship to Australia please link through PM. Thanks.
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2019, 09:10 
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Just ordered a TVOne CS-450 through ebay and shipitto forwarding for US$199..
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2019, 16:07 
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forper wrote:
Just ordered a TVOne CS-450 through ebay and shipitto forwarding for US$199..

Keep us posted, again really would like to try this but money and time on my end will be the deciding factor.
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2019, 22:38 
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forper wrote:
Just ordered a TVOne CS-450 through ebay and shipitto forwarding for US$199..

That seems reasonable, after passing on a few more expensive ones I paid US$180 (including shipping) a couple of years ago, though thankfully exchange rates were better then. As with many things coming to Australia from the US the shipping was pretty ridiculous for such a small and light item.

Paid less for the 1T-C2-150 and though you could say it's more advanced I believe if your only purpose is subtitling the CS-450 is the better option and it did seem more in demand/expensive at the time I was looking.
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2019, 09:52 
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Yeah, it has no PSU or remote either so not the deal of the century but the best price I could find at short notice. Shipitto rates are fairly reasonable to Australia.

I like the look of the CS-450 better, looks like an obscure game console..

I'll keep the Sony 1024G for my future plan to get into projection after my CRT dies (hopefully never). The line doubler might be handy..?

Anyway I'll update here after I receive the CS-450, thanks for your help and recommendations, especially Audioboyz.
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2019, 15:55 
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Mine had the PSU so bonus - actually iirc it was a US115V, but ran off 100V fine (so much Japanese gear here!!). Actually I got it after the 1T-C2-150 as wasn't quite happy with that, tested it out and happy with the result but like many projects around here it's sat on the back-burner for a while. Who knows with 4 weeks off over x-mas? (Though you'll like that besides family visiting from Melbourne the priority will be trying to get one of multiple non-functional HIL-C2EX up and running!)

Now hope you were paying attention to the video you linked that it needs a VGA input. Bit of a rarity these-days, both laptops in this house have HDMI out only. Picked up a dirt-cheap HDMI-VGA converter off e-bay. Result was subtitles looking a little on the soft side but with CS-450 the actual image was like a pure pass-through with virtually no degradation, so to me an improvement over the 1T-C2-150.
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2019, 10:05 
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Okay, according to the manual I just have to find a PSU in my collection that matches:

min 350mA @ 12v.
Requires 'center-pin positive' 2.1mm DC power plug input.

I should be right but my DVDO was very picky...

Good luck with the HIL-C2EX, do it for the glory of old Sony..certain MUSE opportunities you may know of tempt me now too but I like to focus on one thing at a time so genlock is it..

Yep, VGA ready on my business spec Jp VAIO from 2012 or so, want to eventually get a VAIO UX for sub duty, that would be dope..
,
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2019, 21:33 
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Ref stands for reference, that’s where you feed your sync for genlocking.

Feed your composite video into video 2.

Blackmagic makes a nice little sync generator that you can slave all your gear to:
Blackmagic mini converter sync generator

Only a couple of LD players will take external sync; The LD-V4400 and the 8000, I believe.

In order for the frames to sync everything has to be on the same clock; if your LD player won’t genlock, you could use a splitter and use the LD signal for sync as well. Not as good as a sync generator, but at least it will put everything on the same clock.
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2019, 23:43 
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Thanks for your post rojan. My CS-450 is now in the country, should be able to pick it up after Christmas. Hopefully it solves my problem in one box (I'm a simple man) but your info is interesting.
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2019, 00:26 
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Black magic looks cool but 195 for that, gen lock and computer dedicated to do this I may just find the script translated in English and read it
once or twice before I watch the film.

OR pickup the film or series on DVD along with LD and run that with subs separately below with a second TV which may be cheaper???
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 Post subject: Re: Gen-lock help please
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2019, 00:50 
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rein-o wrote:
Black magic looks cool but 195 for that, gen lock and computer dedicated to do this I may just find the script translated in English and read it
once or twice before I watch the film.


Well that's never going to be the same. I have done this with synopses if I can find em. Basically watch the episode, try to understand it as best I can and then read the synopsis to see if I missed anything important. I think this beats reading before you watch as that's going to spoil the story.

Quote:
OR pickup the film or series on DVD along with LD and run that with subs separately below with a second TV which may be cheaper???


There's a guy here who just runs the sub files on his phone under the TV. That kind of simple solution intrigued me for a while but now seems like a compromise. It also screams 2010s. ie the tech is more advanced than ever but somehow worse than before?? You can apply it to modern walkmans. 20 years ago I could see the track being played on my remote control. Can't now. Have to pull the whole walkman out of my bag and check the screen!

Everything is like generic now and nothing is specialised anymore?

I want overlayed subs or nothin' now - The old world solution that was actually a proper solution!
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