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 Post subject: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 08 May 2019, 21:29 
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I'm seeking advice or suggestions on acquiring a Lumagen Radiance XE. While the 21x4 series features a 3D comb filter the XE does not.

How do the XE or XE-3D models compare to the 21x4 series for LD playback on a 4K LCD display? Is it a waste of money and time?

Does the XE have that same Lumagen magic that the 21x4 series does or is that all the 3D filter? There seems to be a debate on 2D vs 3D comb filters. I understand that even a 3D comb filter is likely to be in 2D mode most of the time.

Ideally 480i NTSC in and 1080p24 YCbCr over HDMI out and a locked film mode is what I'm after. I'm not concerned with 4K output or 3D video. Passing DSD, Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master would be nice but not required. I understand only the XE-3D will do that.

Thanks for sharing your opinions ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 10 May 2019, 02:12 
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sonicboom wrote:
I'm seeking advice or suggestions on acquiring a Lumagen Radiance XE. While the 21x4 series features a 3D comb filter the XE does not.

How do the XE or XE-3D models compare to the 21x4 series for LD playback on a 4K LCD display? Is it a waste of money and time?

Does the XE have that same Lumagen magic that the 21x4 series does or is that all the 3D filter? There seems to be a debate on 2D vs 3D comb filters. I understand that even a 3D comb filter is likely to be in 2D mode most of the time.

Ideally 480i NTSC in and 1080p24 YCbCr over HDMI out and a locked film mode is what I'm after. I'm not concerned with 4K output or 3D video. Passing DSD, Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master would be nice but not required. I understand only the XE-3D will do that.

Thanks for sharing your opinions ;)


I use a Radiance XE because I use a Crystalio II first so the XE does all scaling and color correction which it does very well. I recently aquired a CLD-R7G player which looks pretty amazing with SVideo right to the XE so it can certainly work well with the right players SVideo output or another separate comb filter in front of it.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 10 May 2019, 02:38 
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While some didn't like the R7G I have to say its one of the best underrated LD players.

Running that straight into a projector with S-video gave an amazing picture, one of the best.
While I no longer own that player and do like what I own now I feel that was a top 3 player under 500-600 at the end of the LD era.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 10 May 2019, 16:01 
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pbiancardi wrote:
I use a Radiance XE because I use a Crystalio II first so the XE does all scaling and color correction which it does very well. I recently aquired a CLD-R7G player which looks pretty amazing with SVideo right to the XE so it can certainly work well with the right players SVideo output or another separate comb filter in front of it.

OK, so none of my players have an amazing S-Video out and I doubt I'll be getting a C2. I'm good on players so I won't be looking at a CLD-R7G or anything like that unless it falls in my lap. I assume the 2D filter in the XE to out perform the one in the player (704, V888 or 900U)? Have you used the composite in and had poor results?

Do you think that it will be a better overall improvement over Composite->DVP-1010? It too only has a 2D filter and outputs 720p/60.

Thanks man, I'm just weighing the options of spending money on things like this or just keep waiting for something else which would only be more money. Or just be happy with where I'm at which is pretty good but I'm always trying to improve.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 10 May 2019, 18:19 
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rein-o wrote:
While some didn't like the R7G I have to say its one of the best underrated LD players.

Running that straight into a projector with S-video gave an amazing picture, one of the best.
While I no longer own that player and do like what I own now I feel that was a top 3 player under 500-600 at the end of the LD era.


I was really surprised, its so compact and when you open it up there is very little to it, but really great picture via S-Video. Also these can be had for under $300 plus shipping these days...


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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 10 May 2019, 18:20 
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sonicboom wrote:
pbiancardi wrote:
I use a Radiance XE because I use a Crystalio II first so the XE does all scaling and color correction which it does very well. I recently aquired a CLD-R7G player which looks pretty amazing with SVideo right to the XE so it can certainly work well with the right players SVideo output or another separate comb filter in front of it.

OK, so none of my players have an amazing S-Video out and I doubt I'll be getting a C2. I'm good on players so I won't be looking at a CLD-R7G or anything like that unless it falls in my lap. I assume the 2D filter in the XE to out perform the one in the player (704, V888 or 900U)? Have you used the composite in and had poor results?

Do you think that it will be a better overall improvement over Composite->DVP-1010? It too only has a 2D filter and outputs 720p/60.

Thanks man, I'm just weighing the options of spending money on things like this or just keep waiting for something else which would only be more money. Or just be happy with where I'm at which is pretty good but I'm always trying to improve.


That is really hard to say, its so much preference and a lot of the differences are very subtle. I would bet the Lumagen on its own > 1010 but I have never compared the two. I have never actually tried the composite into the XE as I have no reason to, sorry I can't help more.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 10 May 2019, 19:34 
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pbiancardi wrote:

I was really surprised, its so compact and when you open it up there is very little to it, but really great picture via S-Video. Also these can be had for under $300 plus shipping these days...

Yes, I've seen some cheap from Japan now, but they were in that higher range.
Still a very good player, back when Duncan was around he even preferred the image of the R7G to the S9.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 10 May 2019, 20:49 
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pbiancardi wrote:
That is really hard to say, its so much preference and a lot of the differences are very subtle. I would bet the Lumagen on its own > 1010 but I have never compared the two. I have never actually tried the composite into the XE as I have no reason to, sorry I can't help more.


Got it. Yeah I'm also thinking the XE is better in almost every way. We'll see how it plays out. Thanks for your thoughts.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2019, 15:53 
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Just to put a definitive end on this thread see my comments in this thread regarding the Lumagen unit I bought and then returned....

Radiance XS vs DVDO Edge

Basically, not all Lumagen boxes do the same thing as the lofty 21x4 series. Be aware of what chips/processors are used. There are plenty of comments that mention what has what if you search.

If you look under the hood and Google some spec sheets you'll find things like the Faroudja DVP-1080 uses the same FLI2300-LF chip that the Cyrstalio II does.

I find those things interesting...
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2019, 23:05 
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sonicboom wrote:
Just to put a definitive end on this thread see my comments in this thread regarding the Lumagen unit I bought and then returned....

Radiance XS vs DVDO Edge

Basically, not all Lumagen boxes do the same thing as the lofty 21x4 series. Be aware of what chips/processors are used. There are plenty of comments that mention what has what if you search.

If you look under the hood and Google some spec sheets you'll find things like the Faroudja DVP-1080 uses the same FLI2300-LF chip that the Cyrstalio II does.

I find those things interesting...


That's because Crystalio II has a Faroudja chip as one of it's processing options, this is menu selectable and not a secret.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2019, 16:21 
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pbiancardi wrote:
That's because Crystalio II has a Faroudja chip as one of it's processing options, this is menu selectable and not a secret.


That the C2 uses the FLI2300-LF is no secret, correct. There are pictures on the forum. What is less than known is what is in other products. The group is fixated on a few *brands* but what really matters is what is under the hood, and how its implemented of course.

My point being that not ALL Lumagen products do what the 21x4 series does. Not ALL DVDO products use the same guts, and no one has documented what is in the Faroudja DVP series.

All I'm saying is that for such a well regarded, hard to find and expensive product like the Crystalio II, which utilizes a FLI2300-LF, there are other options with similar chipsets for less that are more available. My example being the 2005 Faroudja DVP-1080 which uses a FLI2310-LF. The DVP of course doesn't also have Gennum VXP or any of the other bells and whistles but for $200 or so vs $1000 or not even being able to find a C2 or 2144...
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2019, 16:46 
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I think you are a little confused. DVDO was owned by Anchor Bay Technologies for a while and at that era they made consumer video processors. All DVDO products use ABT chips for this purpose. Faroudja also handled their processing in house. So all their products use FLi chips.

Pms (crystalio) and lumagen use of the shelf parts and build their products. That’s why you will see different parts on different products.

All these were talked about and discussed many times. I will repeat the summary one more time here.

Lumagen 2124/44 and Crystalio II vps-3300/3800 are the only video processors that will give you the next league performance. Your image will significantly improve. Even with less than 20/20 vision eyes you can tell the difference. Lumagen 2144 is virtually noise and artifact free. It is much purer and truer to source. CII can be adjusted to be noticeably sharper in the expanse of artifacts. It is older and buggier. The hardware is too old for anything remotely modern like Blu-rays.

Other video processors(including older Lumagen) will need 20/20 vision to tell subtle differences if any. You can use other processors to improve certain areas but not all like the above two. Lumagen processors will give you the absolute best scaling and color correction (if you have tools to calibrate). Dvdo vp20 and onwards will give you the best progressive scan image on video material but terrible in scaling.


All Faroudja and other video processors should be avoided. All dvdo vp20 and older should be avoided. They are simply too antiquated. They don’t do any processing right except maybe aspect ratio management. With these not only you won’t improve your image but actually you will lose resolution. They simply bob and weave deinterlacing lines. This will work on static images but will cause loss of resolution on motion. Faroudja shut down way before per pixel adaptive deinterlacing so none of the Faroudja stuff has decent processing per today’s standards. Dvdo vp 20 and higher got abt102 chip which has per pixel adaptive deinterlacing. (Optional on vp20 and 30, std on 50).
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2019, 18:29 
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sonicboom wrote:
or not even being able to find a C2 or 2144...


One in UK: Lumagen Radiance 2144 Video Processor
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283651999808

For some reason it doesn't show on eBay.com or eBay.co.uk searches.
Maybe a good opportunity with little competition!

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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2019, 23:59 
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admin wrote:
sonicboom wrote:
or not even being able to find a C2 or 2144...


One in UK: Lumagen Radiance 2144 Video Processor
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283651999808

For some reason it doesn't show on eBay.com or eBay.co.uk searches.
Maybe a good opportunity with little competition!

Julien



Not anymore since you posted here lol
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2019, 03:49 
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substance wrote:
Not anymore since you posted here lol


I already have one, I have nothing to lose :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2019, 04:40 
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I still love my plucky VP50
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2019, 18:35 
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substance wrote:
All Faroudja and other video processors should be avoided. Faroudja shut down way before per pixel adaptive deinterlacing so none of the Faroudja stuff has decent processing per today’s standards.


Interesting you mention that. Here is a quote from the FLI2310 product brief from 2003 (used in the DVP-1080 from 2005/6):

http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet_pdf/genesis-microchip/FLI2310.pdf

DEINTERLACING –
• Per-pixel Motion Adaptive Deinterlacing
• Patented FilmMode Processing - Used for proper de-interlacing of 3:2 and 2:2 pulldown material.
• Edit Correction - Film content is continuously monitored for any break in sequence caused by “bad edits” and quickly compensates for the most effective reduction in artifacts.
• DCDiTM by Faroudja - Video is analyzed on a single pixel granularity to detect presence or absence of angled lines and edges, which are then processed to produce a smooth & natural looking image without visible artifacts or “jaggies”.

Not trying to be argumentative. Not trying to make blanket statements. Just looking for some clarification between some of the different products that are often discussed here and to learn from those who are knowledgable.

Thanks
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2019, 19:19 
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substance wrote:
admin wrote:
sonicboom wrote:
or not even being able to find a C2 or 2144...


One in UK: Lumagen Radiance 2144 Video Processor
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283651999808

For some reason it doesn't show on eBay.com or eBay.co.uk searches.
Maybe a good opportunity with little competition!

Julien



Not anymore since you posted here lol


Its sitting at 330 now for a few days, wonder how hot it will get closer to the end of the auction.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2019, 00:02 
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Fli works for film mode 3:2 pull down but fails all other content. Vxp chip has a bug which it won’t stay in forced film mode. Pms solved this issue with including fli 2310. Lumagen solved it with fpga bases film mode deinterlacing.

For strictly ld and strictly films, fli2310 will do well in film mode. But a newish flat panel will do at least just as good, that’s why I don’t see a point.
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 Post subject: Re: Lumagen Radiance XE in 2019?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2019, 02:28 
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rein-o wrote:
Its sitting at 330 now for a few days, wonder how hot it will get closer to the end of the auction.


Ships to: United Kingdom

Maybe that's why?

Julien
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