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Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=6847		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  shinchan [ 17 Jan 2017, 03:08 ]
Post subject:  Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
I just received a very nice-looking LD-S9 from Japan. Unfortunately it arrived with the power supply board broken at one of the mounting screws near the fuse and the unit will not power on. I'm fairly certain that the break also affected one of the traces, but I can't inspect the bottom of the power board without removing it, and I can't remove it without removing the tray.

I'm used to 704s, where you remove the bonnet and can reach the pulley that will manually open and close the tray, but on the S9 I can't see any such mechanism. I'm guessing I need to remove some of the boards on the right side of the unit, but not sure how to approach this as I'm terrified of removing those boards since they have jacks through the back of the chassis.

Is there a simple way to get the tray open without powering the unit on?

Attachments:
IMG_3808.jpg
IMG_3808.jpg [ 33.32 KiB | Viewed 5126 times ]
Author:  rein-o [ 17 Jan 2017, 03:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
can you get to that screw????
If you remove that you can see if any traces are actually broken, or just stick a mirror under there.
Author:  shinchan [ 17 Jan 2017, 03:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
Regardless, I have to remove the board to either replace it or to solder a jumper to the broken trace, so I have to get the tray out. Considering that the unit will not power on at all and the fuse is intact, I'm 99% certain that there is a broken trace.
Author:  forper [ 17 Jan 2017, 04:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
Good luck, the S9 has the best picture I've ever seen on LD.
Author:  rein-o [ 17 Jan 2017, 05:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
Well if you see no broken trace you can power it up and open the tray power off etc.
Then proceed.
Author:  shinchan [ 17 Jan 2017, 14:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
rein-o wrote:
Well if you see no broken trace you can power it up and open the tray power off etc.
Then proceed.


The traces are on the bottom of the board. The unit does not power up, so I assume there is a broken trace. I can't remove the board to replace or repair without removing the tray.
Author:  rein-o [ 17 Jan 2017, 16:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
Yes i know what traces are, i was and still am saying you can put a mirror that you can get at an auto store under there and see if there is another issue.
But since you did try to power it on already there are more problems than what you can see.

But seems like you may be out of luck as nobody else has any info on your situation.
Good luck.
Author:  krbahr [ 18 Jan 2017, 01:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
shinchan wrote:
I just received a very nice-looking LD-S9 from Japan. Unfortunately it arrived with the power supply board broken at one of the mounting screws near the fuse and the unit will not power on. I'm fairly certain that the break also affected one of the traces, but I can't inspect the bottom of the power board without removing it, and I can't remove it without removing the tray.

I'm used to 704s, where you remove the bonnet and can reach the pulley that will manually open and close the tray, but on the S9 I can't see any such mechanism. I'm guessing I need to remove some of the boards on the right side of the unit, but not sure how to approach this as I'm terrified of removing those boards since they have jacks through the back of the chassis.

Is there a simple way to get the tray open without powering the unit on?


The amount of breakage in the picture should not include any traces as they are closer to the filter capacitor but what I've seen is that if it hit hard enough there can be cracks in the board elsewhere that would open traces.

Now the S9 uses the very same mechanical assembly as the 704 and the pulley is in the same place so if you can open a 704/79/99 you can open the S9. Lift up the video board on the top right to access the pulley. Only difference is the lower clamp on the spindle motor.

If you have 704's just replace the S9 power supply with the 704 power supply and then you can plug it directly into a US power line without needing the voltage converter for the S9 power supply.
Author:  pbiancardi [ 18 Jan 2017, 13:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
krbahr wrote:
shinchan wrote:
I just received a very nice-looking LD-S9 from Japan. Unfortunately it arrived with the power supply board broken at one of the mounting screws near the fuse and the unit will not power on. I'm fairly certain that the break also affected one of the traces, but I can't inspect the bottom of the power board without removing it, and I can't remove it without removing the tray.

I'm used to 704s, where you remove the bonnet and can reach the pulley that will manually open and close the tray, but on the S9 I can't see any such mechanism. I'm guessing I need to remove some of the boards on the right side of the unit, but not sure how to approach this as I'm terrified of removing those boards since they have jacks through the back of the chassis.

Is there a simple way to get the tray open without powering the unit on?


The amount of breakage in the picture should not include any traces as they are closer to the filter capacitor but what I've seen is that if it hit hard enough there can be cracks in the board elsewhere that would open traces.

Now the S9 uses the very same mechanical assembly as the 704 and the pulley is in the same place so if you can open a 704/79/99 you can open the S9. Lift up the video board on the top right to access the pulley. Only difference is the lower clamp on the spindle motor.

If you have 704's just replace the S9 power supply with the 704 power supply and then you can plug it directly into a US power line without needing the voltage converter for the S9 power supply.



Would a 503 power supply be compatible? If so I have a parts unit I can send him the power supply from.
Author:  happycube [ 18 Jan 2017, 18:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
If it's VWR1200 as listed on Pioneer's site, yes.

There are more electronics in the 70x/99/S9, so it's possible a higher wattage version was produced and offered as a replacement to the 503 though. They used a slightly smaller PSU board in the 104/2800/406 vs the 606 for instance.
Author:  shinchan [ 18 Jan 2017, 23:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
Thanks Kurtis,

I do have several 704s, unfortunately they are all working units. I guess I'll have to designate one as a "parts machine" and let it go :)

I got the tray out of the S9, it was as you said. I even managed it without skinning my knuckles too badly.

now to figure out a way to get this 704 PS out without having to unsolder and resolder the power cable.

Do you happen to know if the VWR1249 that's listed on the US sites is a Japanese-voltage power supply?

thanks,
Jared

krbahr wrote:
shinchan wrote:
I just received a very nice-looking LD-S9 from Japan. Unfortunately it arrived with the power supply board broken at one of the mounting screws near the fuse and the unit will not power on. I'm fairly certain that the break also affected one of the traces, but I can't inspect the bottom of the power board without removing it, and I can't remove it without removing the tray.

I'm used to 704s, where you remove the bonnet and can reach the pulley that will manually open and close the tray, but on the S9 I can't see any such mechanism. I'm guessing I need to remove some of the boards on the right side of the unit, but not sure how to approach this as I'm terrified of removing those boards since they have jacks through the back of the chassis.

Is there a simple way to get the tray open without powering the unit on?


The amount of breakage in the picture should not include any traces as they are closer to the filter capacitor but what I've seen is that if it hit hard enough there can be cracks in the board elsewhere that would open traces.

Now the S9 uses the very same mechanical assembly as the 704 and the pulley is in the same place so if you can open a 704/79/99 you can open the S9. Lift up the video board on the top right to access the pulley. Only difference is the lower clamp on the spindle motor.

If you have 704's just replace the S9 power supply with the 704 power supply and then you can plug it directly into a US power line without needing the voltage converter for the S9 power supply.
Author:  shinchan [ 19 Jan 2017, 01:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
The S9 lives!!!!!

After receiving much reassurance from folks on the board as well as the master of all laserdisc hardware, Kurtis Bahr, I removed the power-supply from one of my working 704s and transplanted it into the S9. Pretty much plug-and-play, but the power cords go through the chassis, so there is no way to actually get the boards out without unsoldering. I opted to keep the Japanese-style heavy-duty power cord with the S9 as I didn't want to mess with trying to get the rubber grommets out of the chassis. So unsolder 2 wires, solder 2 wires, put everything back together and Bob's yer uncle...

And yes, it is nice to be able to use 110V US power with a Japanese player without the stepdown transformer, although many parties have told me that the S9 power supply will handle 110V just fine.

In the photos, the S9 PS is on the left, and the 704 PS is on the right. Very close, but there are slight differences in components and layout.

Attachment:
IMG_3815.jpg
IMG_3815.jpg [ 64.95 KiB | Viewed 5022 times ]


It loads and plays a disc, I'll see later tonight if I actually get picture and sound out of it...
Author:  krbahr [ 19 Jan 2017, 04:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
I cannot remember the power cord of the S9 but the X9 is a non-polarized and there is a white stripe on the cord that needs to go to the negative plug. Make sure you plug it in correctly as the power supply is designed to AC couple the negative side to the chassis.
Author:  shinchan [ 19 Jan 2017, 06:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
krbahr wrote:
I cannot remember the power cord of the S9 but the X9 is a non-polarized and there is a white stripe on the cord that needs to go to the negative plug. Make sure you plug it in correctly as the power supply is designed to AC couple the negative side to the chassis.


yes, I already made sure of that. The plug actually has a "-" symbol on the negative side.
Author:  samaron [ 19 Jan 2017, 12:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
A bit off-topic, but that's one thing I've never understood... Why on earth have a "polarized" power plug on AC? Do you actually connect the neutral lead to the chassis? That just defies everything I learned in school. :lol:
Author:  forper [ 20 Jan 2017, 00:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
Good news OP. Interested in your impressions of the S9s PQ and SQ. I give it high marks for picture but with somewhat mediocre "clipped" sounding sound.
Author:  krbahr [ 20 Jan 2017, 06:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
samaron wrote:
A bit off-topic, but that's one thing I've never understood... Why on earth have a "polarized" power plug on AC? Do you actually connect the neutral lead to the chassis? That just defies everything I learned in school. :lol:


With single phase the negative side of the outlet is connected to earth ground at the fuse box in your house. So it you want the chassis of the electronics you plug into the outlet AC coupled to ground you need to use the negative feed line. The chassis somehow needs to be referenced to ground otherwise the chassis could float up to a few thousand volts DC offset and when you touch it you would get a dangerous arc. I have seen impressive arc's when the earth ground is not connected and then later it is realized and the person moves the ground cable close to the chassis when trying to connect.

I do agree the actual operation of the electronics can operate with the plug either way, this is a totally different issue of power transmission and safety.
Author:  pbiancardi [ 20 Jan 2017, 14:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
krbahr wrote:
samaron wrote:
A bit off-topic, but that's one thing I've never understood... Why on earth have a "polarized" power plug on AC? Do you actually connect the neutral lead to the chassis? That just defies everything I learned in school. :lol:


With single phase the negative side of the outlet is connected to earth ground at the fuse box in your house. So it you want the chassis of the electronics you plug into the outlet AC coupled to ground you need to use the negative feed line. The chassis somehow needs to be referenced to ground otherwise the chassis could float up to a few thousand volts DC offset and when you touch it you would get a dangerous arc. I have seen impressive arc's when the earth ground is not connected and then later it is realized and the person moves the ground cable close to the chassis when trying to connect.

I do agree the actual operation of the electronics can operate with the plug either way, this is a totally different issue of power transmission and safety.


Does any of this apply to using a step down transformer for a Japanese player? Should I pay attention to which way I plug it into the step down?
Author:  rein-o [ 20 Jan 2017, 15:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
Are you able to find the broken trace on the board???
Author:  audioboyz1973 [ 20 Jan 2017, 16:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing LD-S9 tray without power?
pbiancardi wrote:
Does any of this apply to using a step down transformer for a Japanese player? Should I pay attention to which way I plug it into the step down?


Same question; while I understand AC still has an active and neutral line, I always assumed that if the plug/socket allowed you to plug it in either way around then it really didn't matter??
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