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 Post subject: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 10:34 
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Hi there,

I finally managed to make my LD S2 sing again, but it wasn't the end, because although it's a 1992 model, it didn't have the AC3 RF output. By the way even if it's a 1992 model, it's impossible to have closed caption on it, a pity for me because I'm French.

Anyway, the mod is quite easy !

Here is the schematic where signals must be taken :
Attachment:
Pioneer ld S2 AC3 schema.png
Pioneer ld S2 AC3 schema.png [ 146.92 KiB | Viewed 3710 times ]


This board is located in the guts of the player : you just have to remove the bottom plate and you will find behind a copper plate a board on a side that have to be removed :
Attachment:
pioneer ld s2 ac3 mod1.jpg
pioneer ld s2 ac3 mod1.jpg [ 296.29 KiB | Viewed 3710 times ]


Then another copper plate and the audio board :
Attachment:
pioneer ld s2 ac3 mod3.jpg
pioneer ld s2 ac3 mod3.jpg [ 354.14 KiB | Viewed 3710 times ]


You can see all the interesting points !: AC3RF, Mute, +5V , -5V and ground.

I used this schematic :
Attachment:
AC-3.gif
AC-3.gif [ 7.72 KiB | Viewed 3710 times ]

That can be found here

Strangely, It didn't work with Q2 and Q3 so I removed them and R2 is directly connected to +5V. So mute input isn't an absolute need : I don't have any noise at all. Maybe other circuit could be better but this one works flawlessly.

I put the small circuit board in a place out of the precedent picture, on the top.
And the out coaxial (shielded) wire is put on the top of the back :
Attachment:
pioneer ld s2 ac3 mod4.jpg
pioneer ld s2 ac3 mod4.jpg [ 180.03 KiB | Viewed 3710 times ]


And it works like a charm ! :)
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 10:40 
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I could not upload more than 5 pictures in the first post so here is a zoom on +/-5V picking points :
Attachment:
pioneer ld s2 ac3 mod5.jpg
pioneer ld s2 ac3 mod5.jpg [ 154.92 KiB | Viewed 3709 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 17:10 
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Very impressive.

But when you say, “ ...it's impossible to have closed caption on it...”, I’m not sure that’s correct. Every NTSC LD player is compatible with CC as far as I know. It’s your TV or external box that actually renders them though. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant.
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 18:20 
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Thank you for taking the time to write all of this up and take photos. This will be of great help since I have not modded mine yet.
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2021, 06:58 
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Nice job :thumbup:.

Always nice to see it all come together and bring another play up to date for AC3. I still have at least four (or maybe six) more players I plan to get modded for AC3.



ambroiseg wrote:

Strangely, It didn't work with Q2 and Q3 so I removed them and R2 is directly connected to +5V. So mute input isn't an absolute need : I don't have any noise at all. Maybe other circuit could be better but this one works flawlessly.


I actually used that schematic initially and had the same issue w/ the Q2 and Q3. Not sure if it was me or if the schematic was just plain wrong. I actually liked this design because it is the only known version that is supposed to work for MAL (and come to think of it; my problem was that the board I made based from it gave me a negative voltage on the RCA jack so maybe it does work but I needed an MAL player to test it).

In any case, the Mute signal from what I understand doesn't appear to cause issues most of the time but I did have a problem on a Sony mod that I did w/ the built in AC3-RF Demodulator of which the initial start of a disc side would sometimes give me a loud digital pop and then everything is fine. I think the issue was simply because of the way the AC3-RF board interacted with my particular Demod board. After that, all my other AC3 mods had a good working mute point and I never got the digital pop ever again.

In any case, here is the AC3-RF board schematic that I found to work perfectly for me.

Image

It's a bit different in respect that it uses two additional ceramic caps that I believe were intended for noise filtration off of the +5 and -5 volt inputs. This is also only meant for MAH players which is actually fine since most MAL players are only in Europe so I don't have to worry about it hear in the US.


Last edited by ldfan on 06 Feb 2021, 17:42, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2021, 09:13 
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Thank you all, I'm glad if it can help you. ;)

ldfan wrote:

I actually used that schematic initially and had the same issue w/ the Q2 and Q3. Not sure if it was me or if the schematic was just plain wrong. I actually liked this design because it is the only known version that is supposed to work for MAL (and come to think of it; my problem was that the board I made based from it gave me a negative voltage on the RCA jack so maybe it does work but I needed an MAL player to test it).

In any case, the Mute signal from what I understand doesn't appear to cause issues most of the time but I did have a problem on a Sony mod that I did w/ the built in AC3-RF Demodulator of which the initial start of a disc side would sometimes give me a loud digital pop and then everything is fine. I think the issue was simply because of the way the AC3-RF board interacted with my particular Demod board. After that, all my other AC3 mods had a good working mute point and I never got the digital pop ever again.

In any case, here is the AC3-RF board schematic that I found to work perfectly for me.

Image

It's a bit different in respect that it uses two additional ceramic caps that I believe were intended for noise filtration off of the +5 and -5 volt inputs. This is also only meant for MAH players which is actually fine since most MAL players are only in Europe so I don't have to worry about it hear in the US.


Thank you for the info, I can't try it for the moment since I put my player under other players and don't have time for the moment but I take note and will surely try yours. :)

signofzeta wrote:
But when you say, “ ...it's impossible to have closed caption on it...”, I’m not sure that’s correct. Every NTSC LD player is compatible with CC as far as I know. It’s your TV or external box that actually renders them though. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant.


It seems to be an internal and technical drawback on the LD S2, that can't be solved. I use a Contemporary Research Caption decoder, I don't have any subtitle unfortunately...
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2021, 17:47 
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ambroiseg wrote:

Thank you for the info, I can't try it for the moment since I put my player under other players and don't have time for the moment but I take note and will surely try yours. :)



No need to try it if the current set-up is working fine.

I just wanted to elaborate that I too had some difficulty with those transistors. It’s good to hear that someone else tried it and had similar problems as it makes we feel I wasn’t totally on the wrong path. :)
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2021, 17:11 
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Thank you very much ambroiseg for posting this tutorial. I've been meaning to get this done on mine. You've made it easier and left me no excuses.

signofzeta wrote:
Very impressive.

But when you say, “ ...it's impossible to have closed caption on it...”, I’m not sure that’s correct. Every NTSC LD player is compatible with CC as far as I know. It’s your TV or external box that actually renders them though. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant.


Wow, I know something Zeta doesn't! :wave:

Looky here Oh my and again here!

http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_ld-x1/pioneer_ld-x1.htm
Quote:
The conversion back to analogue video is via an 8 fsc/9 bit converter (fsc = the multiple of the chroma sub carrier frequency).

TL;DR Due to the nature of the conversion process, line 21 is shifted down and thus not recognized as Line 21 on a decoder.


Last edited by sonicboom on 07 Feb 2021, 17:20, edited 1 time in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2021, 17:18 
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Wow I never knew that, but then again I never had an S2, did have a 95 for a very short time but never tested it so we don't know about that either.
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2021, 17:34 
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rein-o wrote:
Wow I never knew that, but then again I never had an S2, did have a 95 for a very short time but never tested it so we don't know about that either.

Actually, you did know that....3 years ago, lol. Now you know it again!
Closed Caption and LD-X1 (solved)

rein-o wrote:
Did you get them before and it stopped now? Is it your TV, I thought that some newer TVs won't display CC but I may be wrong?



Thanks for posting :wtf:
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2021, 18:05 
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I guess I did and now don't but do again :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 07:53 
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Im just here to say that the S2/X1 is a absolutely awesome looking bit of kit
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 18:00 
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Hi,

I had to check in my LD S2 because of a sound problem : there was sound with Toslink out but not with RCA out : after troubleshooting I saw that some fuses (ICP N38) were burnt : 2 fuses for the DAC power supply : now replaced and working again.

So I took the opportunity to take a picture of the AC3 RF circuit : it shows where to place it. No need of such big resistors but I took what I had in my stocks.
Attachment:
LDS2 AC3 RF circuit.jpg
LDS2 AC3 RF circuit.jpg [ 170.16 KiB | Viewed 3569 times ]


And I figured out that Q2 and Q3 on the schematics are already in the LD S2 (check my first picture with red arrow pointing to mute picking signal), that's why they are not needed. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 21:21 
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ambroiseg wrote:
Hi,

I had to check in my LD S2 because of a sound problem : there was sound with Toslink out but not with RCA out : after troubleshooting I saw that some fuses (ICP N38) were burnt : 2 fuses for the DAC power supply : now replaced and working again.


That's a nice easy fix. Wonder why it popped in the first place. That usually would be a bad sign of something. However, I have a weird issue w/ my Boston Acoustics subwoofer constantly popping a fuse every time I unplug the power. After replacing the fuse, it's fine again unitl I unplug the power again. :roll:


ambroiseg wrote:
So I took the opportunity to take a picture of the AC3 RF circuit : it shows where to place it. No need of such big resistors but I took what I had in my stocks.
Attachment:
LDS2 AC3 RF circuit.jpg


And I figured out that Q2 and Q3 on the schematics are already in the LD S2 (check my first picture with red arrow pointing to mute picking signal), that's why they are not needed. ;)



Not sure if that schematics of the LD-S2 with the transistors really mean the mute switch is built into the board. I've never really totally understood how the mute actually works in the circuit but I know every place I soldered a mute wire to should have a switching 5v point (+5v when disc is paused/stopped and 0v is playing).

Anyway, here are a few pics of my board designs....


My first experimental board (on left) next to the BDE board (right)
Image


My second board shrunken down after I perfected the first one
Image


A size comparison of that board w/ the BDE board again.
Image
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 Post subject: Re: LD S2 AC3 RF mod tutorial
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 23:19 
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I normally solder parts directly onto the audio board, that way you don't have to find room to put another board securely inside the player
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