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 Post subject: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 10:49 
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Ive had issues with this Player where I had thought the Spindle Motor was on its way out -
Had put it aside for about 6 months -

Got it out today to give it spin again to see how its going -

The Standby Light initially did not light -
I tried another Power Socket - It did light - But when the Power/On button is pressed nothing happened.

I then unplugged the unit and again plugged into the power socket - no Standby Light again !

And this is how it is - sometimes you can get the Standby Light On when plugging into the power socket - But never even when the Standby light is lit can you get the player to power up.

Before diving in too deep - Wondered if anyone else has had a similar problem - looking at the SM it appears the PSU is the same as in the Pioneer Models --> CLD-99, 79, D704, D503, CLDV780.

The Part number is VWR1200 (US) and International VWR1201 (multi Voltage.)

Side issue - no matter what I try I cannot get the LD tray to come out - something binding or the belt is slipping (trying to manually turn the mechanism after removing the Video Board) - Either that or I am doing something wrong there!

Any thoughts most appreciated.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D770 (703) Wont Turn On
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 14:38 
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Unplug it from wall and turn the voltage selector each way a few times to make sure it is making a good connection. I doubt this is the issue, but it is easy enough to try.

Sounds like a bad cap somewhere to me. In the past I have repaired no standby by replacing a small capacitor on the primary side of power supply. I have repaired stuck in standby by replacing a small capacitor on board with display on it.

d770 wrote:
no matter what I try I cannot get the LD tray to come out - something binding or the belt is slipping (trying to manually turn the mechanism after removing the Video Board

Belt slipping will not be an issue as long as you are turning the white plastic pulley. Just don't force anything. Make sure pickup is near spindle.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D770 (703) Wont Turn On
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 17:36 
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I agree with cplusplus comments and remember members such as Kurtis also suggested this is the problem of the "kickstart capacitor" of the primary side of the power supply which needs to be replaced. If the power supply of CLD-D703 is VWR1200, it should be C14 which is something like 1uF 100V, located next to the largest capacitor C11 (390uf, 200V) . As C14 is near the primary switching power transistor and the two 3W 47kohm snubber resistors, it would get hot and lose capacitance over time.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D770 (703) Wont Turn On
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 19:50 
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I have this same issue with my 99. It comes and goes. I took it apart six months ago to see if I could find fault in the power supply…everything I know how to check checks out. I’m probably just going to put it together again and use it and it will probably work, judging from past experience.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D770 (703) Wont Turn On
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2022, 22:40 
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Yes, replace the startup capacitor first to see if the supply will then turn on the standby light each time it is plugged in.

As for the tray opening. If the laser is too close the the spindle motor it can hit the underneath of the motor or the CD/LD selection arm and cause issues. Also the unit can be out of sync with the mechanism timing. I've seen this happen during shipping.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D770 (703) Wont Turn On
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 01:27 
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Thankyou Everyone !

Managed this morning to get the LD tray to manually open - first I was able to get the CD tray to open - but then I think my fingers were slipping on the pulley - the mechanism kept pushing back with resistance! I had to move the pulley a little by little at the same time holding the pulley with firm pressure then move a little again - Basically the process after getting the CD tray open was to to close the CD Tray and raise the mechanism - keep going in the same rotational direction and the mechanism then lowers and after that the main LD tray was ejected...Tricky!

The Power Supply Board is removed and I can see the Primary side Cap C14 does indeed get very Toasty! it sits far too close to a Hot Heatsink!
Ive ordered a 200V 1uF 105 degree Electrolytic Cap and will hopefully get that on Monday and Install the same day to try....will post back the result.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D770 (703) Wont Turn On
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2022, 15:08 
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d770 wrote:
The Power Supply Board is removed and I can see the Primary side Cap C14 does indeed get very Toasty! it sits far too close to a Hot Heatsink!
Ive ordered a 200V 1uF 105 degree Electrolytic Cap and will hopefully get that on Monday and Install the same day to try....will post back the result.

Any updates on the cap? I may need to do this soon on a new to me CLD-99.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D770 (703) Wont Turn On
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2022, 01:51 
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sonicboom wrote:
d770 wrote:
The Power Supply Board is removed and I can see the Primary side Cap C14 does indeed get very Toasty! it sits far too close to a Hot Heatsink!
Ive ordered a 200V 1uF 105 degree Electrolytic Cap and will hopefully get that on Monday and Install the same day to try....will post back the result.

Any updates on the cap? I may need to do this soon on a new to me CLD-99.


Marked as out for Delivery - so should be trying this either today or tomorrow - will be posting back here the result soon for sure!

Other options - there are a few 2nd hand boards on Ebay for a price!
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 00:06 
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Still have same issues

C14 swapped out - result was same symptoms - have not checked anything further - what we have is the same symptoms - when you plug into power the standby light does not always light - when and if it does pressing the standby power button has no effect.

Will have to have a rethink about what to test next.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 01:06 
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Taken Voltage Readings -

Measurements taken With Standby Light Lit :

CM22
1 0v
2 0v
3 +5.47v
4 -21.5v
5 -28.5v
6 -21.4v

CM21
1 0v
2 0v
3 0v
4 0v
5 0v
6 0v
7 0v
8 0v
9 0v
10 +11.6v
11 -11.5v
12 0v

If I push and hold the Power Button whilst the Standby light is on and remeasure -
CM22 pin 2 goes from 0V to about +4V (voltage fluctuating a bit)
Also when I hold the power button on with with the Standby Light on, I see an increase in 1.5 Volts across all measured Voltages (except on Pin 5 CM22 5volts is steady)


Last edited by d770 on 22 Jun 2022, 01:51, edited 2 times in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 01:25 
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Screenshot of Power Supply Connections and Voltages from SM -
Looking at CM21 Pins 7 and 8 - Currently both Pins with Standby Light Lit are at 0V,
they are shown as +5V and -5V in the Service Manual - Should the Voltages be present at Standby? or are they only present when Unit is working normally Powered on.?

So anyway to test all voltages of the Power supply board out of Circuit?

....want to be sure that the we do not have or have a Power supply issue.


Attachments:
CM21 PSU .jpg
CM21 PSU .jpg [ 137.3 KiB | Viewed 540 times ]
CM22 PSU Connections.jpg
CM22 PSU Connections.jpg [ 73.11 KiB | Viewed 540 times ]


Last edited by d770 on 22 Jun 2022, 02:08, edited 1 time in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 01:57 
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For Ref - Standby LED and Standby/ Power Switch from SM
I note the Transistor Q107 DTC124ES in line with the Standby LED light.
The Transistor is switched from the Mode Control IC Pin 61, Labelled LED0.


Attachments:
Standby Switch and LED.jpg
Standby Switch and LED.jpg [ 206.71 KiB | Viewed 540 times ]


Last edited by d770 on 22 Jun 2022, 05:18, edited 1 time in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 02:47 
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Power supply Board I think is OK.

I put a resistor jumper between Pins 2 and 3 (Power On, and EV+5Volts) on the Power Boards CM22
Connector and measured Voltages of + and - 5 Volts across pins 7 and 8 at connector CM21...all good! (removed the ribbon cables and Spindle Motor Connector first before for jumping and testing)

So it lookslike we have a problem at another point other than the Power Supply Board.


I'm hoping its not the Mode Control IC failing outputs...maybe it is.?!
In normal operation the Outputs from the Mode Control IC appear to switch both the Standby LED and When the Power Button is pressed the IC would normally switch the 5V Supply to the rest of Unit (Pins 7 and 8 on CM21) I believe via the 'Power On' output Pin29.

I need to check EV 5 volt supply at Mode Control IC (Pins 1, 62, 22 and 10) are present and stable.
Other than Supply Voltage issues to the IC Im not sure what else could cause the IC to not output...unless there is some Logic issue when power is applied that is stopping the normal IC outputs switching..perhaps an input is seen in the wrong state.


Attachments:
Mode Control IC.jpg
Mode Control IC.jpg [ 485.3 KiB | Viewed 529 times ]


Last edited by d770 on 22 Jun 2022, 06:29, edited 1 time in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 06:28 
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I dropped the Front Assembly to gain access to the Front Board and the Mode Control IC.

With the Standby light on

All Mode Control IC (Pins 1, 62, 22 and 10) are fine at 5.45V stable

Pressing and holding the power button whilst measuring the Voltage on Pin 29 (Power On) of Mode Control IC -

Voltage output from pin 29 fluctuated (using a DVM) in the realm of 2 - 4.5 Volts - Not sure what is normal output Pin 29 (Power On) ...had thought it would be either a one shot pulse or just a 5Volt on all the time once activated- so not sure why it is fluctuating when held closed - have not got my Oscilloscope out to see any further. Either way when holding and getting some output from Power On pin29 the unit does not come to life any further.

Fearing the worst - Mode Control Chip Death ?!?

If we had some idea of the Flow of Instructions in the Chip Program perhaps it would be easier to see if this is Hardware issue or not.

Not sure what more I can do - happy to test out any suggestions.!


- to cap it all - my backup D780 has failed on me last night with a U1 Error - will not play anymore.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 11:41 
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That is the other board I mentioned to check caps on. C101, C104, C105 and anything else you see. I would do all of this with player unplugged from wall because you will need to measure ESR/capacitance rather than voltage.

A bad Mode Control IC would be so rare that you would have to rule out everything else first.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 14:32 
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cplusplus wrote:
That is the other board I mentioned to check caps on. C101, C104, C105 and anything else you see. I would do all of this with player unplugged from wall because you will need to measure ESR/capacitance rather than voltage.

A bad Mode Control IC would be so rare that you would have to rule out everything else first.



:clap: :angel: C104 ! 10uF 16Volt Thankyou C++!

Luckily I had a spare cap.

Was heading for bed but saw your post ...thought lets test and see !
Was thinking originally if I could see +5V where I should on that Chip then Caps maybe not the issue - but it was indeed - thanks again !
The Loading Belt is now slipping - will have to get a new one..then to see if we have a Spindle Motor Issue - but thats for another thread and another day!

Cheers :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2022, 15:28 
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cplusplus wrote:
That is the other board I mentioned to check caps on. C101, C104, C105 and anything else you see. I would do all of this with player unplugged from wall because you will need to measure ESR/capacitance rather than voltage.

A bad Mode Control IC would be so rare that you would have to rule out everything else first.

So these caps are located on the front panel assembly right? What is the actual issue? They have gone bad and now are shorting out power getting to the IC to begin the start up sequence?

I just want to understand the issue more than just replacing parts.

My 99 will show the red standby light then it will fade out when I push the power button. The standby light will always come back after I pull power then plug it back in. PS board looks ok.

Thx.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2022, 14:45 
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Yes the caps C++ referred are located on the front Panel assembly circuit board.. C104 Electrolytic was my issue- mine was not shorted however I noticed it was not able to hold a charge.

This faulty Cap was messing with the supply to the all important 'Mode Control Chip' on the same board - unstable supply equals processor not running or not running stable enough and thus no outputs switched to start up the machine.

I tested my Power Supply unit using a 1K load resistor between pins 2 and 3 (Power On, and EV+5Volts) on CM22 (removing first the ribbon and spindle motor cables) and then Check Voltages are as expected on the Power Board (refer to SM)..if they are ok then might be a Cap on the front panel affecting the Mode Chip - like mine.


Last edited by d770 on 28 Jun 2022, 04:42, edited 4 times in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2022, 18:52 
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d770 did a good job in the post above regarding this specific issue.

In general, the way these Pioneer players work with Standby is the Mode Control IC is always powered by +5V, awaiting user input to power on. When that input is received, the Mode Control IC tells the power supply to fully power on the player.

The other two caps I mentioned are also on this "always on" +5V supply. One is in the Mode Control IC's watchdog circuit and one is for the remote receiver (the remote receiver has to always be on so the player can be powered on via remote).
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D770] Won't Turn On
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2022, 23:14 
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D770 & C++ thanks you two!

I learned that a player not powering on is not always the actual power supply going bad...

cplusplus wrote:
The other two caps I mentioned are also on this "always on" +5V supply. One is in the Mode Control IC's watchdog circuit and one is for the remote receiver (the remote receiver has to always be on so the player can be powered on via remote).
So, then is it possible a player could power on via remote but not via the front panel power switch?

Also, do either of you have the values for all those caps mentioned? I know you mentioned C104. The SM doesn't state the values, only the part number. Not all of them are coming up in searches. It would be nice to have them ready when I open the thing up again.

Thanks again!
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