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 Post subject: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2022, 22:37 
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Hi!

So, I took a chance and imported a CLD-R7G from Japan some time ago. At first I was quite happy with it, tested it throughly, let it spin for a while and changed sides. So far so good, stable picture and no weird noises. With a few movies watched I've come to realize that the picture gets noticably worse the longer I progress through a movies, usually at around 25-30 minutes and onwards. It starts with a few flickering horisontal lines and ends up with quite a lot of them. It would be quite the coincidence if all three had rot or something at that same time frame... Any ideas to what this could be? Misaligned laser? Sad laser? Something else?

Here's a link to a photo I took, to illustrate the problem:

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 Post subject: Re: Problem with horisontal lines on a CDL-R7G
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2022, 05:02 
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Are you using S-Video or Composite? Straight into your TV or are using some upscaler or processor?
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horisontal lines
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2022, 06:11 
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That is not rot.

All LDs coming from the same source?
Could the discs be slightly warped from bad storage?

Does the player makes more noise trying to focus on the disc as you play further?

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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horisontal lines
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2022, 09:48 
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I had similar issues once on an R7G. Fixed it by applying more grease on the rail for the pickup. It may not be the issue right here but it's worth a shot.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2022, 14:08 
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Hi all, fantastic to see so many immediate replies!

@jakeheke: I have tried both S-video through an upscaler and pure composite (both going through a home cinema amp though), swapping between them during the problematic playback. Same result.

@admin: The LDs are from various sellers, some are newly bought and some are old. I store them upright and in a dry and dark place. I have also inspected them and cannot see anything out of the ordinary, neither scrathes nor warping. I don't think the player sounds much different between start and end of discs, but if it does it'd very minor.

@nissling: Aha, I could try that. Any specific grease to try or just a generic white one?
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2022, 14:30 
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Same results on CLV and CAV discs ?
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2022, 15:30 
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Those pictures look like some type of flaw on the LD, does this happen with all discs, it also could be warp.

1st how does this player work with a CD?

This is the easiest test before you start ripping into a nice player.

EDIT: I re-read your post, if you only have 3 discs and its happening to all I would say all 3 came from the same place, correct?
and there is some warp.
I had this on a disc once, so check the CD and an LD from another source.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2022, 20:04 
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@mimylovesjapan: Will have to test!

@rein-o: Same flaws on all three tested discs, coming from different sellers and bought at different times. Also, different makers and markets (Japan, US). I have other discs to test, including CAV, so I can try a few more soon. As for CD, there's not stuttering or such. The only thing I noted is that there is sometimes a slight sweeping sound at regular intervals, but I need to be very close to the player to hear it.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2022, 08:12 
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If the discs appear to play perfectly well even through the bad sections, I would be inclined to think the issue could be the player's digital field memory circuit exhibiting an issue.

Do you have access to a non field memory player to test out the discs?
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2022, 17:12 
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@ldfan: I tried another disc (different seller and bought earlier than the other three) today and discovered that I actually couldn't play past a certain point, and my home cinema receiver lost sync. But it was only about 24 mins in and not at the very end. Haven't seen that on any other disc.

I took some videos as well, one showing the lines and one the sound of the player when it got "stuck" just before 24 mins.

Lines/artifacts, seem to be rolling.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hdkuiw9c2hdl3f3/IMG_2333.mov

Ticking sound, couldn't be heard at the start of the disc.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymiyq2m8858zy3k/IMG_2334.MOV
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2022, 20:39 
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Ok... I think you have an alignment issue now. Reminds me of when my CLD-D704 transport was slightly bent out of alignment (most likely caused by shipping). Take the cover off of your player and look for these signs in this pic......

Image

Where I have it marked in red, make sure the transport lines up perfectly straight to the back plate. Where I have it marked in yellow, make sure everything is perfectly straight including the rods going from front to back. Also, do an overall check of the rest of the chassis for anything else that might look bent up.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2022, 14:35 
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@ldfan: Awesome, will check it out! Wouldn't be surprised if this is the problem, since it was shipped all the way from Japan to Sweden and not very well packaged...
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2022, 19:44 
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Interesting results!

I took a bunch of photos of the insides of the player. As far as I could see the might have been some very slight bend on the metal flap that connects the rods to the back, so I simply nudged it a little for better alignment.

Photos:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qdr2rpwd21gz ... SUZeEif3ja

Then I started up the disc from the first post without the hood on and - lo and behold - it was pretty warped! It's not very noticable at high speeds, but when the disc gets to lower speeds it's quite bad. I then tested a bunch of other discs and wathed them spin up, but most were good and didn't show any lines. I then went back to the other two discs I have mentioned in earlier posts and checked if they were warped as well, but they looked good to me, maybe some slight slight wobble. And to my surprise they seemed to run fine now.

Finally, I found one disc where the middle part, at around 24 mins, showed lines. The player also made some ticking sounds, like in my previous video (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymiyq2m8858zy3k/IMG_2334.MOV). However, when skipping to the end of the disc it was completely fine. What gives?

Sooo, is there a combination of things at work here? Did I fix the alignment AND identified bad discs? Also, is my player a diva that's way too sensitive or is this to be expected?
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2022, 21:03 
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Its hard to say, I think its warped disc, but then again there really is no such thing as a perfectly flat disc, even if you look at a disc
the center is up slightly higher than the rest.

You did purchase older discs from someone who may not have stored them correctly for possibly a decade or more.

This player should not be so sensitive but then again as you said it was shipped and not packed well.
I think it could be a combination of issues, you really need to make sure you don't start tweeking the player until you can
find out the real culprit.

LDfan and a few others are still on the forum that have more knowledge about repairs, please always wait before you start to jump in as I've
seen this in past topics and then people have broken players.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2022, 23:40 
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@rein-o: Yeah, I've tested quite a few discs today and tried to see if there are any obvious common factors. Warping definitely seems to be one, but not yet certain if that's all. And do I agree with your advice about progressing slowly, will for sure wait and see what ldfan and possibly others have to say about it. I'm grateful for all the contributions so far!
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2022, 07:22 
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The pics don't seem to indicate anything obvious to me. However, maybe some shots of the transport portion might provide more insight (the entire section where the laser travels from A to B). On my CLD-D704, there was an obvious pronounced shift to the entire back end that the only way to fix it was literally grabbing it with my hands and slowly tweeking it back (I did have a perfectly aligned 703 to help me eyeball it).

Also, I just realized that this R7G does use an Epsilon turn mechanism which means there is a possibility a bad motor holder could be contributing to the issue (I don't recall any mention of how your unit plays on A and B sides; are they having the exact same issues on both sides at the same exact times?).

Here is some info on the motor holder issue....

Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700

You can test your motor holder on the laser pick-up by gently pushing it on the rail and observe if you notice any gears skipping.

Anyway, I don't consider myself an expert by a long shot (I'm more of an enthusiast w/ a focus on the AC3 aspect). Cplusplus and kbaur would be the go to guys on knowing exactly what this issue is.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2022, 19:33 
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Here's a video of the whole thing in motion. Seems to be running quite smooth I think, no?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nw90onvtpfvu2qm/IMG_2349.MOV

Hmm, I haven't throughly tested B-sides yet, but I guess I should.
And thanks for the link, will keep it in mind if things come down to looking at the motor.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2022, 21:33 
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So, long time since last post, but I had the chance to try the same discs with a CLD-3070. Guess what, same problems! So it seems the R7G is ok after all and I need to go find replacements for my bad LDs...
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2022, 01:14 
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Well you really need to find out what is wrong with those discs before you start replacing, if you are sure and have some discs that do work.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-R7G] Problem with horizontal lines
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2022, 12:49 
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Yeah, I'm sure, since both players exhibit the same problems at the same places (lines and skipping). I do have discs that work well too, so I guess watching a whole lot of old anime is what I'll do in the coming weeks. :)
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