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 Post subject: Pioneer Elite CLD 53 -1994 vs Pioneer CLD 3080 -1990
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2023, 01:03 
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Which has better image quality? Will the player from 1994 beat the player from 1990 or could the 1990 upset? I know the CLD 3080 was used to construct the CLD-95. The CLD 3080 benefits from one big thing and that I believe it's the only laserdisc player that has a built in jog-shuttle. I really like the face plate on the CLD 53. I don't know what the face plate of the CLD 3080 looks like until it's in person. I mean you can judge a player by pictures online but I don't feel like it does it justice. I felt like my Elite CLD 53 looked better in person. It has a very attractive face plate.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer Elite CLD 53 -1994 vs Pioneer CLD 3080 -1990
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2023, 01:47 
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Whichever is in the cleanest shape cosmetically, mechanically and electrically. The one that works will give you the best picture.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer Elite CLD 53 -1994 vs Pioneer CLD 3080 -1990
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2023, 02:13 
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Wait to receive your 3080, run tests and give us a report.

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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer Elite CLD 53 -1994 vs Pioneer CLD 3080 -1990
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2023, 03:29 
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer Elite CLD 53 -1994 vs Pioneer CLD 3080 -1990
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2023, 21:12 
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I just got a CLD-53 a few weeks ago (my first LD player). Drove 6 hours (round trip) to pick it up for about $100.

Not sure if I'm allowed to post URL's since I'm a new member, but I'll try. Here's a sample video capture from my CLD-53:
https://files.catbox.moe/bzj72l.mp4
Youtube's probably going to murder the quality, but I've also uploaded that clip there just now.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RMaSeID8mOs
Image

I am somewhat competent at reading schematics, and from what I can see the -53 puts its composite signal through a comb filter to split it out to s-video, and the output composite signal is a recombined signal derived from the separated luma and chroma output of the comb filter. The comb filter is a decent 2D one, but it's not truly remarkable like some of the 3D ones are. I do notice slight rainbowing (which is basically where luminance information gets seen as chrominance information on sharp edges). The 3080 appears to use a Pioneer-made comb filter that I can not find a data sheet for (VTF1032), which is also recombined for its composite signal. My instinct (admittedly based primarily on pin count) is that the Sony CXD2023Q chip in the CLD-53 is the better one.

This capture was made after calibrating the card with an NTSC-J laserdisc with SMPTE color bars. I captured it over S-Video, operating on the theory that splitting, combining, and re-splitting the composite signal is worse than only splitting it once. Note that my capture card is not the greatest; I have two to choose from; one does excessive chroma subsampling (the chip captures in YUV 4:2:2, which is fine, but then there's another chip between the capture chip and the PCI bus that downsamples it further to YUV 4:2:0, because of course there is.) and the other has noisy chroma. I picked the noisy chroma card. It's especially noticeable in blues like in this clip, but that noise is not present on other devices I play it on.

Should be possible to lift a pin and tie it high on the comb filter chip (Sony CXD2023Q) to make the raw composite signal go out... albeit on the S-Video luminance pin. The chip has a miniscule pin pitch, so I'm not sure I can recommend doing that.

Considering opening mine up and pulling composite from just before the comb filter and trying to make my own amplifier/line driver for it (has to be able to push a 75 ohm load).

Ignoring that for a moment: as it sits, it's a pretty decent player from what I can see and tell. Mine came with the remote and manual and is pretty spotless; spins up without issues.

It has no AC3 RF output, although I suppose it could be modified to have that, if one cared enough. Demodulators are too rich for my blood, so I'll probably just keep an eye out for old amps with integrated AC3 RF demodulators.

Also, I'm considering picking up a domesday board or at the very least modding one of those CX2388X video capture cards (for use with the CXADC linux driver) to capture raw disc readings. If I do that, the quality of the analogue circuitry (apart from the pickup) should matter less in the long run.

All in all, it's a relatively late player (new enough and just high end enough to have digital S/PDIF and TOSLINK, at least). It seems to be highly related to the CLD-D503, which lacks those digital outputs. It does predate the advent of AC3 by one year.

I've run several discs on it, including some test pattern discs, and to me it's not bad, even without any mods. If the -53 you're looking at is in good shape, I'd say they're decent players.

The 3080 looks fun, with that little pop out control panel. I'd be worried that in the long term the cables or ribbons or whatever they're using to connect that control panel to the drive circuitry will fail and render the onboard controls non-functional. Might take ages for that to happen, though.

If the -53 does not have a remote, then you won't be able to do single-frame advance stepping on CAV's. There are third party replacement controllers that should work; the remote part number is CU-CLD103, so anything that claims compatibility with that should work.

From a quick glance at the schematic, I think that the 3080 does also split and recombine the Y/C signals for composite out (ARP1999 service manual, page 36, YCSB assembly). The 3080 looks to use much more discrete circuitry than the -53 does (which could be a good thing since it means fewer custom chips, probably, but could also be a bad thing since there are more points of failure...).

The -53 uses a "one bit dac" ("legato link conversion"). In theory at least this is a good DAC, should you be doing analogue output.

The 3080 has a VFD (vacuum fluorescent display), which I have a hankering for. Looks like the -53 does, too, according to the schematics.

If both players work well, are complete, etc., it doesn't matter too much which you pick from what I can see. One downside I do see for the 3080 is that it doesn't have a coaxial SPDIF output (only optical). That's probably not going to be an issue though.

One other thing, the mechanics inside the 3080 might be simpler. The 53 has this silly mini-tray where you can make just a smaller CD-sized tray pop out of the player. That requires additional moving parts to implement, of course.

I don't know enough about the 3080, but I can tell you that anecdotally my -53 seems okay so far. Since it seems to have a lot in common with the CLD-D503, that might make it easier for me to find parts units when/if it dies. The 503 seems a little more common than the -53 is.

Aesthetically, I like the 3080 more, but aesthetics are my single lowest priority when choosing electronics.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer Elite CLD 53 -1994 vs Pioneer CLD 3080 -1990
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2023, 07:16 
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I own both and they both look good and like elite players cosmetically. However the Elite CLD-53 is a fake Elite. It can't step frame on CLV discs. I believe the CLD-3080 can but I don't even really use that feature. Picture quality wise both are great. I can't really tell much of a difference when I capture. I used s-video on my CLD-3080 which is pointless because I think the composite on it is producing the same quality. :lol:

Star Wars might not be the best laserdisc to compare quality. A laserdisc to check quality out on is probably Rumpelstiltskin which I own. For some reason that looks grainier at times on my Pioneer players compared to my Panasonic LX-900 1995.

CLD-3080 s-video

Image

CLD-53 Elite composite

Image

CLD-3080 s-video

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CLD-53 Elite composite

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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer Elite CLD 53 -1994 vs Pioneer CLD 3080 -1990
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2023, 17:57 
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jesuslovesgood wrote:
I own both and they both look good and like elite players cosmetically. However the Elite CLD-53 is a fake Elite. It can't step frame on CLV discs..


There is nothing "fake" about the CLD-53 being an Elite. When Pioneer made Elite products, they had at least two tiers of quality. The high end models had all the urushi finish & wood side panels, heavy metal chassis (in most cases), and lots of copper cladding. The mid level models (which were re-badged standard Pioneer units) still had minor tweeks in audio & video quality, minor cosmetic changes, gold plating for the RCA jacks, and in the case of your 53 had digital outputs which were absent on the 503.

In respect to the 53 not having digital field memory (the ability to do freeze frame, step, and clear scan w/ CLV discs), that was obviously not an Elite specific feature as you know since you have a 3080. Once again, different tiers of quality will also have different level of features to meet a price point.
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