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Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=6557		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  pbiancardi [ 16 Sep 2016, 12:24 ]
Post subject:  Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
I have been trying to get a working CLD-97 for some time now, actually have one in for repair right now.

I tried to import a Japanese CLD-939 but it arrived damaged beyond repair, I got a refund and replaced with this CLD-959 that arrived pretty beat up but I have managed to put it back together.

The issue I am having is when I go to calibrate my display the test patterns show huge amounts of video noise (much more than my other players), is something out of adjustment or is the laser getting weak? The RCA video jacks seem a little loose, not sure if that could be causing this or is this just the way the 97 looks? The thing that throws me off is that for normal movie watching there doesn't seem to be this much noise, the picture is really good, just seems to be struggling with the test patterns?

Video chain is CLD-959 composite -> Extron YCS 100 Svideo -> RCA DRC8335 convert to component -> Algolith Mosquito -> DVDO VP50 -> TV (other players run through same setup do not have issues).

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Author:  elahrairrah [ 16 Sep 2016, 23:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
I think there's something wrong. My 97 isn't anywhere near that noisy
Author:  signofzeta [ 17 Sep 2016, 02:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
Pictures aren't that great. Are you sure you aren't asking for too much brightness/contrast? 97s aren't usually that noisy but any LD player will look noisy if you are using too much gain.
Author:  pbiancardi [ 17 Sep 2016, 02:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
The contrast and brightness are set correctly. The pictures don't even show how bad it is, much worse than it looks here but like I said if I put on colorful cartoon or movie it's hardly noticeable.

Big question is what would cause this so what do I need to adjust?
Author:  rein-o [ 17 Sep 2016, 03:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
I would try to adjust sharpness, brightness and other adjustments that would be in that realm.

Also try another cable, if the jack is loose that's not a good thing, i would try to see if the wires inside the player
are making contact or giving off distortion.
Good luck.
Author:  signofzeta [ 17 Sep 2016, 17:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
Yeah, "loose jacks" sounds suspicions as well.
Author:  invenio [ 18 Sep 2016, 13:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
What happens when you connect the unit directly to the TV? I can't help but wonder what kind of artifacts you are introducing by running it through 4 other components that effect the video output.

I have to ask, what is the purpose of running it through all these components as it will surely degrades the picture? I would just use the one best scaler between the source and TV for optimal picture quality.
Author:  pbiancardi [ 18 Sep 2016, 21:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
invenio wrote:
What happens when you connect the unit directly to the TV? I can't help but wonder what kind of artifacts you are introducing by running it through 4 other components that effect the video output.

I have to ask, what is the purpose of running it through all these components as it will surely degrades the picture? I would just use the one best scaler between the source and TV for optimal picture quality.


The purpose is to use a good comb filter, a good scaler, and a good NR device, I can assure you this does not degrade the picture, it makes the picture MUCH better than just using one device for all of these things. I can assure you this is not causing an issue, I have multiple players that look absolutely amazing with my setup.

It's obviously something got knocked out of alignment during shipping, just not sure what I should look at adjusting.
Author:  happycube [ 19 Sep 2016, 03:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
Try turning off NR mode. Also, VE can be a noisier disk, try another with test patterns and see if it has the same issue.
Author:  pbiancardi [ 19 Sep 2016, 13:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
happycube wrote:
Try turning off NR mode. Also, VE can be a noisier disk, try another with test patterns and see if it has the same issue.


The 959 does not have a button for that, that is one of the differences VS the 97.

The more I test the more I think I am just spoiled by my other players, the same test pattern with my Runco LJR II shows zero noise and I guess I was assuming the 959 would be as good or better. For normal viewing the 959 is awesome it only shows video noise when there is a very bright red scene (say Aliens when she is obliterating the nest with fire) and even then it is only bothersome because I can watch the same scene on the Runco with zero noise.

What movies or boxes have test patterns on them?
Author:  signofzeta [ 19 Sep 2016, 20:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
I don't think there should be a huge difference in noise between 97 and the LJRII. I have a 99, which is compatible to the 97 in noise and on my setup there is almost no chroma noise whatsoever. Unless the 959 is a lot different from the 97 I'd say something is wrong with the player.
Author:  pbiancardi [ 19 Sep 2016, 21:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
The 99 isn't even in the same ballpark as the 97 as far as video noise goes unless you are using a lot of DVNR....
Author:  signofzeta [ 19 Sep 2016, 23:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
You're saying one is noisier than the other? Which?
Author:  pbiancardi [ 20 Sep 2016, 00:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
signofzeta wrote:
You're saying one is noisier than the other? Which?


The 99 in inherently much noisier than the 97. The two players aren't even in the same league as far a build quality and picture noise goes.
Author:  happycube [ 20 Sep 2016, 01:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
Huh, the LJR 2 screenshots I've seen completely blow out that red bit. Yours must be (analog/electronically) adjusted correctly... for test disks, look for A Video Standard or one of the Pioneer service disks.

Also the Pioneer LaserVision demos from the 80's have test patterns at the end - which is good since CAV's SNR is best there.
Author:  signofzeta [ 20 Sep 2016, 04:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
pbiancardi wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
You're saying one is noisier than the other? Which?


The 99 in inherently much noisier than the 97. The two players aren't even in the same league as far a build quality and picture noise goes.


Oh, there's no question about the build quality. The mechanics of the 99 are identical to any other mid range Pioneer apart from stuff that doesn't matter, like the copper case or the gold plated jacks. The 97 is much sturdier. However when it comes to the picture...honestly, not so big. The electronics do a great job of making up for the cheap chassis.

One thing's for sure, I'm not getting the kind of noise you're showing here...and if this deck is supossed to be light years ahead of mine...something is messed up with it for sure.
Author:  pbiancardi [ 20 Sep 2016, 11:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
happycube wrote:
Huh, the LJR 2 screenshots I've seen completely blow out that red bit. Yours must be (analog/electronically) adjusted correctly... for test disks, look for A Video Standard or one of the Pioneer service disks.

Also the Pioneer LaserVision demos from the 80's have test patterns at the end - which is good since CAV's SNR is best there.


You are correct, I do not have a magic Runco (see below), it does obliterate the red on the moving orb pattern, I was talking more about the color bars being noise free. I should have my 97 back from Grasshopper soon, I guess I can get a better idea if what I am seeing on the 959 is normal or not then.

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Author:  pbiancardi [ 20 Sep 2016, 11:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
signofzeta wrote:
pbiancardi wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
You're saying one is noisier than the other? Which?


The 99 in inherently much noisier than the 97. The two players aren't even in the same league as far a build quality and picture noise goes.


Oh, there's no question about the build quality. The mechanics of the 99 are identical to any other mid range Pioneer apart from stuff that doesn't matter, like the copper case or the gold plated jacks. The 97 is much sturdier. However when it comes to the picture...honestly, not so big. The electronics do a great job of making up for the cheap chassis.

One thing's for sure, I'm not getting the kind of noise you're showing here...and if this deck is supossed to be light years ahead of mine...something is messed up with it for sure.


No idea why you are defensive about the 99, I am not saying one is better or worse that is personal preference. What is a 100% fact is that the 97 is inherently a much less noisy design (and I am talking about with DNR off).
Author:  nissling [ 20 Sep 2016, 12:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
signofzeta wrote:
However when it comes to the picture...honestly, not so big. The electronics do a great job of making up for the cheap chassis.

Have you even seen the CLD-97? It's arguably the best dual-sided player available, in many regards even better than the HLD-X9. Noise levels are very low and most processing is done through analogue circuits with much better design than the CLD-99, which certainly gives off a digitized image by comparison. This is also relevant for most players released by Pioneer in the mid-90s and onwards, which is also the main reason why the HLD-X0 is a major step above the HLD-X9 when it comes to Laserdisc playback (with MUSE, not so much).
Author:  signofzeta [ 20 Sep 2016, 20:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Is CLD-959 (97) this noisy or is something wrong??
You're both missing my point.

My 99 is virtually noiseless.

A 97 is waAaaasssaasy better.

The 959, supposedly identical to the 97, in the picture looks pretty noisy, and that's the topic of the thread so I'll take it I'm not alone in thinking this.

The problem: based on these facts the pictures shown should look much better. Since they stink then there is "something wrong" with the player. If it looks worse than a 99 then it's messed up, right?

And btw, yes of course I have all the DNR on (Y standard, chroma maxed, sharpness 0) and it looks amazing to me. It also goes through a JVC DVD recorder that scrubs it even more.


Does this look terrible or something?

https://youtu.be/q5jOMLbyozg

(Be sure to choose at least 480p)
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