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 Post subject: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2019, 04:05 
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Hi good folks -- I just recently got my first LaserDisc player ($15 thrift shop find, how could I resist?) and this forum has been a wealth of helpful info as I've tinkered with it. Thank you all!

It's a Pioneer CLD-D605 and there's one last issue with it I haven't been able to solve yet... With the both side play feature, the laser assembly moves from the bottom rail to the top rail without any problem. But when it tries to go from the top rail to the bottom rail, it struggles in the same way every time:

First, the laser assembly moves from the inner part of the rail to the outer part in fits and stops, with the motor sounding like it's struggling. This happens no matter how far into the disc I was when I press a button for eject or side A. (The player can play side B all the way through just fine. If I skip forward a chapter or two, the motor makes the same noise, but it gets there and continues playing. The motor does _not_ make this noise if I skip backward any number of chapters.)

Second, the laser assembly goes into the C-shaped transition rail, but it gets stuck about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way in. I have to physically push the assembly down with a plastic poking-stick to help it along, otherwise it gets stuck there with Error E3.

My first thought was to give all the rails some fresh lubricant (white lithium grease), but it didn't help. I also made sure to get some lubricant on the worm gear attached to the laser assembly's motor, but again, no change. Then I cleaned the loading belt, which I think I read has something to do with the both sides mechanism too? (I don't understand how, but I'll yield to experienced voices.) Cleaning it solved the U1 error I was sometimes getting when loading discs, but didn't affect the laser assembly movement problem.

I made a video showing the problem in case it would help: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qe2jeltc20aot ... 5.mp4?dl=0

I'm totally stuck, does anyone have suggestions I could try? Thanks! :)

'Leigh
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2019, 04:12 
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Someone else should chime in with more knowledge.
What about the M holder??
I know they can be brittle and that could be the issue??
Try searching that and see or wait for others to say what it could be.
Good luck.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2019, 04:17 
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Thanks for that suggestion, I'll see if I can dig up something helpful. :)

Also, I thought of another test to try: if the problem was with the motor in the "reverse" direction, then I'd expect it to make the same sounds if I'm playing side A and skip backwards a few chapters. But it doesn't. It works perfectly fine on side A. Hmm...
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2019, 05:48 
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Without really knowing for sure based on the video, it looks like the tensioner for the ribbon cable that connects the laser pick-up may not be pulling it back properly. Maybe the ribbon cable is not looped around the tensioner properly or a spring is not tight enough to retract the tensioner. Or you might even have a sticky residue on the ribbon cable itself that was a problem on the CLD-D701.

I can check my CLD-59 later to see how it works and report back later (has the same Epsilon Turn mechanism).

Also, it could be a motor holder issue too that is just starting to have issues.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2019, 19:36 
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The pickup is supposed to stop there and wait for the assembly to adjust down slightly before it slides back under the disc. That action is tied to the rotation of the disc. While the white mat doesn't break down like the rubber ones, it can get filled with crap, so maybe the disc is slipping. Try cleaning it with some isopropyl on a towel.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2019, 22:41 
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ldfan wrote:
Without really knowing for sure based on the video, it looks like the tensioner for the ribbon cable that connects the laser pick-up may not be pulling it back properly.


Ah, you're onto something here! By applying just a tiny bit of downward force on the ribbon cable, the grinding sound during the assembly's movement stops. Then the mechanism adjusts downward in the way blam1 mentioned (thanks for your hint, too) and the assembly sometimes makes it through the turn. When it still doesn't make it through the turn, it looks like the assembly could be just a smidge too high, like the slack ribbon cable is pushing it upward just a tiny bit -- a tiny bit of downward force fixes it.

I don't know what to do about this yet, but I think you've put me on the right "track". (groan) :)
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2019, 02:08 
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With the top off and drawer open unplug the unit. For the laser movement you'll see 2 gear that are between the laser pickup worm gear and the mechanism track. Just push the laser forward and back and see if either gear moves up, down, forward, or back; the only movement you should see is a rotating. If you see the up,down.forward. or back of either gear then you need to replace the MHolder before anything else. I believe you have this issue as the video sounded too noisy when the laser moved on side B.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2019, 21:24 
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krbahr wrote:
Just push the laser forward and back and see if either gear moves up, down, forward, or back; the only movement you should see is a rotating.


I can't freely push the assembly more than a few millimetres at most, is that expected? Thanks!
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2019, 04:07 
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technicalleigh wrote:
krbahr wrote:
Just push the laser forward and back and see if either gear moves up, down, forward, or back; the only movement you should see is a rotating.


I can't freely push the assembly more than a few millimetres at most, is that expected? Thanks!


Yes you cannot move it much, what do the gears do? That will tell you if the MHolder is good or bad.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2019, 20:54 
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Got it, thanks krbahr! :) It's difficult to see, but I do think the gears are moving upward just a small bit to meet the worm gear's teeth. Hypothesis: the slight pressure I was putting on the flat flex cable seemed to solve the problem because it was also pulling the m holder just enough to overcome this problem with the gears. This would also be a more likely (in the Occam's Razor sense) explanation for why I still need to give the assembly a push to help it finish the turn sometimes.

I'll try getting a replacement m holder (VNL1637) and see if that fixes it. Do people here have any recommended suppliers? I haven't seen mention of any, but I may not have looked in the right places.

Many thanks to everyone for helping me troubleshoot this! :D
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2019, 21:10 
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Hmm, and the Pioneer site says I can substitute VNL1700 or VNL1779. I think I've read that those are more reliable, yes?
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D605] Laser assembly can't make the B-to-A slide
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2019, 02:18 
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All the various models of M-Holders are no longer available from Pioneer.

However, keep an eye on this posting as a third party replacement may become available....

Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700

Otherwise, your only bet is to find an equivalent junk player to get the part and hope that the M-Holder is still intact. Or you can just try and fix the current one but I have not heard much on whether anyone has done it successfully.
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