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 Post subject: [CLD-D515] NTSC playback using Yamaha RX-A1080
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2021, 16:06 
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Hello all,

I'm new to the forums and website. I have been using the LDDB website for many years to see what laserdiscs can be bought, which have rot etc. Which has ultimately helped me build a collection over the last 5 years.

Anyway to the matter in hand, I used to connect my Pioneer CLD-D515 laserdisc player to my samsung led tv using composite cables and it worked fine. However I upgraded my setup and bought a new tv LG OLED C7 and a Yamaha RX-A1080 AV Reciever. It has an analog to HDMI output as my LG only has HDMI inputs. However, when watching PAL discs, the black level is fine. But when watching an NTSC disc, the black bars are grey and the picture looks washed out.

Is there a setting that needs to be changed so I get perfect blacks on my NTSC discs?

Has anyone encountered this issue? Its more noticeable on the OLED than a LED tv.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D515 NTSC playback using Yamaha RX-A1080
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2021, 18:07 
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Hello. I'll ask few questions that may seem stupid but they might help.

First of all was this only an issue after you got the receiver. Or did you have this issue when you connected it straight to tv.

Two are you outputting the image in pure NTSC or in pseudo PAL. You see whenever you put an NTSC disc in your machine, the machine transforms the NTSC signal into PAL and outputs it as so called pseudo PAL. (This was because during 90s many people had PAL only TV's). The pseudo PAL is the default option and you have to press the system button in order to get it to output pure NTSC. If you don't do this the pseudo PAL image may be washed out.

Those are the questions. Now I only have one more theory. You see back in VHS and LD days, americans to my knowledge used a different color contrast or setting compared to rest of the world. It wasn't until DVD era that they switched to the same setting as us. This is why the black is not full black. Japan used the same setting as us. So if you happen to own a japanese LD, you should see if that has the right black level. Personally I have noticed that my American discs bars are slightly gray while my Japanese discs aren't. So it might be what you think is an NTSC problem is actually just a problem with American discs.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D515 NTSC playback using Yamaha RX-A1080
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2021, 18:44 
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retrolaservision wrote:
Hello. I'll ask few questions that may seem stupid but they might help.

First of all was this only an issue after you got the receiver. Or did you have this issue when you connected it straight to tv.

Two are you outputting the image in pure NTSC or in pseudo PAL. You see whenever you put an NTSC disc in your machine, the machine transforms the NTSC signal into PAL and outputs it as so called pseudo PAL. (This was because during 90s many people had PAL only TV's). The pseudo PAL is the default option and you have to press the system button in order to get it to output pure NTSC. If you don't do this the pseudo PAL image may be washed out.

Those are the questions. Now I only have one more theory. You see back in VHS and LD days, americans to my knowledge used a different color contrast or setting compared to rest of the world. It wasn't until DVD era that they switched to the same setting as us. This is why the black is not full black. Japan used the same setting as us. So if you happen to own a japanese LD, you should see if that has the right black level. Personally I have noticed that my American discs bars are slightly gray while my Japanese discs aren't. So it might be what you think is an NTSC problem is actually just a problem with American discs.



Thanks for replying. I am unable to connect the player to my current TV as it only has HDMI inputs... something Laserdisc players don't have haha. I did however buy a cheap upscaler online and that produced perfect blacks on NTSC and PAL discs. If I connect it through the receiver, so I get the surround sound too, then the NTSC discs are grey.

Is there a setting on the machine I have to press? I do have the manual somewhere so may have to find it and have a read through it.

I do have a few Japanese discs so will test those and confim if the black levels are ok.
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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D515 NTSC playback using Yamaha RX-A1080
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2021, 19:59 
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Yeah there is a setting to switch it to NTSC. For my player CLD D925 it's far more easier (there is a system button which you just press)

But for your player there seems to be a little more complicated way. Unfortunately there are no english scans of the manual online. So I can't understand how to do it properly. But here is the page that might be telling how to do it in an another language. You should be able to find it in your english manual. The page in the other language manual is 36. Here is a scan of that page.

So dig out your manual and go to page 36 (there also seems to be more info at page 37 as well). So read those and you should know how to do it with your player.

EDIT!!! The page for you might be page 18 (or near that page) since this manual has double the pages, since this manual is divided into 4 languages. But just look around your manual until you see a similar page to my screenshot.


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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D515 NTSC playback using Yamaha RX-A1080
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2021, 22:12 
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retrolaservision wrote:
Yeah there is a setting to switch it to NTSC. For my player CLD D925 it's far more easier (there is a system button which you just press)

But for your player there seems to be a little more complicated way. Unfortunately there are no english scans of the manual online. So I can't understand how to do it properly. But here is the page that might be telling how to do it in an another language. You should be able to find it in your english manual. The page in the other language manual is 36. Here is a scan of that page.

So dig out your manual and go to page 36 (there also seems to be more info at page 37 as well). So read those and you should know how to do it with your player.

EDIT!!! The page for you might be page 18 (or near that page) since this manual has double the pages, since this manual is divided into 4 languages. But just look around your manual until you see a similar page to my screenshot.


I managed to switch from PAL to NTSC and it didn't change anything. The black bars were still grey on NTSC discs. PAL discs perfect blacks.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D515] NTSC playback using Yamaha RX-A1080
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2021, 08:17 
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Well that was unlikely anyway. But now you at least know how to play it in pure ntsc rather than in pseudo PAL. The image will always look a bit better on pure NTSC, so it's a good thing you know how to do it.

Here's even what the site admin told me when I did my CLD D925 review

.
Quote:
.. and don't make the same mistake I made.

Make sure to set your CLD-D925 (via the System button) to output NTSC for NTSC LDs, NOT modulated PAL.



Anyway have you tried to use the japanese discs like I suggested? Again due to the colour contrast thing.


And here is an another suggestion. And it will make your setup more inconvinient but it should fix this problem. Have you thought about connecting the yellow video cable to your upscaler. (Which you said was able to produce perfect results). And then connect the white and red sound cables to your receiver. This would make it possible for you to have your surround sound. And it would make your problems with black colour dissapear.
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