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 Post subject: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing damage
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 07:33 
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Hello,

I'm hoping for some advice here in particular from Kurtis or Duane, or anyone else who has experienced a similar problem.

Too my horror I just realised that my X9 is putting circular scuff marks on discs, such that those sections become unplayable (I'll be ordering some novus polish next in an attempt to fix them!). First noticed it on the very outside of a newly purchased disc and thought it must have been pre-existing and unnoticed at first. But just now a disc known to be fine came out with the outer half all scuffed up.

Opened the player to find this:
Image

As I kind of suspected it’s the ribbon cable from the laser assembly lifting too high as the laser moves and touching the underside of the disc.

Thankfully it hasn’t actually cut through or torn the cable or I’d be totally screwed. In fact the white flakes on top appear to be shavings from the discs rather than damage to the cable (I haven't attempted to remove/clean them off yet) so I think I’m very lucky – in an ‘it could be worse’ kind of way! Actually the inside of the player now has a light coat of LD dust/shavings throughout so I'll be spending some time on this with the vacuum cleaner first.

My question is really what is the best way to proceed to fix the problem?

The only clue I have to cause is that I've noticed the ribbon cable seems to be sticking to the metal plate it is resting on in the right side of the photo. I imagine this would cause the cable to bunch upwards as the laser moves backwards.

So should I thoroughly clean this and the underside of the cable, what is the best solution to do this with? Should this surface and the underside of the cable be lubricated in some way to ensure it does not stick?

Could the cable have been bent out of shape over time by this bunching (or something else) which is tending to bring it too close to the underside of the disc in any case? if so what is the best way to try to re-position/reshape it?

Thank you in advance for any advice you can offer.
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 Post subject: Re: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing dam
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2017, 08:45 
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It's a bit hard to be sure, but looking at where this is visible in the video below (around 8min is one place):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC4o6CwWfYg
It seems that the cable is initially directed downwards on leaving the laser assy (or at least the shadowing makes it look that way).

But on mine there is a strip under the cable (circled in the photo below) that directs it upwards first.
Image

Could it be that someone has installed that black strip the wrong way around? If it was on the other side of the white strip then the effect would be to direct the cable downwards?

EDIT: As best as I can tell from the exploded view in the service manual this is correct so perhaps it must just be an optical illusion in that video???
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 Post subject: Re: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing dam
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 01:25 
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I'm interested what is on the bottom side of the cable. Nothing should be there
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 Post subject: Re: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing dam
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 03:14 
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krbahr wrote:
I'm interested what is on the bottom side of the cable. Nothing should be there

Do you mean the black tab I've circled in the photo above?

I believe it's the part (it's a black plastic part) visible in the exploded view on page 14 of the service manual that sits under the white plate(15). It has a couple of pins that fit to/position the white plate and you can see that upwards oriented tab on the far side of the illustration.

I've circled it in red below:
Attachment:
IMG_4551 reduced.jpg
IMG_4551 reduced.jpg [ 133.41 KiB | Viewed 1578 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing dam
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2017, 23:22 
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That should not be pushing the cable up like yours, it just keeps it from going under the pickup as it moves back. Something else is making it arc up that high.
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 Post subject: Re: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing dam
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2017, 02:54 
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krbahr wrote:
That should not be pushing the cable up like yours, it just keeps it from going under the pickup as it moves back. Something else is making it arc up that high.


Thanks for your help with this.

So I assume from your comments that what I thought I was seeing in the video linked to above is more or less correct. That tab does sit higher than the base of the white strip behind it though, so I have to conclude that it must put some upwards slant on the cable as it leaves the laser assy, even if mine is greatly exaggerated over what it should be. What would be really helpful for me right now is if someone has or can link to a photo/video that shows more clearly just how the cable should be sitting. In that video it's taken from the LHS of the player where it's obscured or at best overhead and not well focused. It would be good to get a clear view of how it should look from the same view as my photo above.

As to what has caused it to to arc up so much the only idea I have is the sticking of the cable as per my first post. If you look at the first photo above the cable is sticking to the grey metal plate that it's resting on, right about where the part number is printed. Imagine pinning it down there with your finger and then the laser moving back; this would cause the cable to arc/bunch up between that point and the laser assy. At this stage it is sticking such that a small amount of force is needed to lift it off and a slight 'tick' can be heard as it unsticks and lifts off.

My guess/theory is that whatever has contaminated there has been getting progressively tackier over time and so holding the cable more securely to it. Up to now I guess that as the laser moves back the arc of the cable has built up enough pressure to unstick it before it arcs enough to make contact with the disc. Now it must be sticking too much and the cable arcs to the point of just touching the disc.

I've noticed too that when I do lift the cable off the plate that it seems to retain the bend/shape it is already in as per the photo. Perhaps this process has been going on for so long that it has bent/reshaped the cable such that the excessive arc is now somewhat fixed.

My thought is to thoroughly clean this metal plate and the underside of the cable to eliminate this sticking. (I'd appreciate any thoughts on what is the best solution to do this with?) So long as the cable doesn't stick and bunch up, I'm pretty sure there should be sufficient clearance maintained between it and the disc.

Then perhaps, over time, with that constant sticking & bunching process removed, the cable may begin to return to more its original shape. I'm reluctant to try to reshape it myself unless absolutely necessary in case I end up damaging it.

Does my planned approach seem reasonable to you?
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 Post subject: Re: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing dam
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2017, 19:03 
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The gray metal plate you refer to bothers me. There is the black piece that has the movement gears and the white plastic piece on top. That should be it. A better picture of the gray metal plate would be interesting.
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 Post subject: Re: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing dam
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2017, 19:23 
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I think perhaps in the above discussion you've become too focused on the area of the laser assy itself.

Please look at the picture below:
Image
this is where the sticking is occurring (circled in red);

and re-read my post above with this in mind?
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 Post subject: Re: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing dam
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2017, 22:39 
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It definitely should not be sticking there, if it is clean it.
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 Post subject: Re: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing dam
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2017, 12:33 
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Well using a moist q-tip did my best to clean that metal plate the cable rests on; at the same time giving the underside of the cable a bit of a clean as the q-tip was in-between them.

It seemed not to be sticking so bad, so with a little more confidence I wasn't about to more damage, put a disc in and spun it up. Flipped it to side B so that the underside of the cable would now be at the top and easily accessible. Sure enough there appeared to be some goop stuck to it. It actually seemed fairly dried up and hardened and not so sticky but that could change when things warm up a bit.

So with a moistened q-tip and supporting the cable with my finger gently rubbed until it was removed.

Flipping back to side A the cable seemed to be sliding smoothly over that metal plate as the laser moved. Actually in FF mode I could see the cable moving very slowly across it without signs of sticking.

Hopefully the problem is now solved.
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 Post subject: Re: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing dam
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2017, 03:08 
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That sounds normal.
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 Post subject: Re: HLD-X9 Cable from laser assy touching discs, causing dam
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2017, 05:51 
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krbahr wrote:
That sounds normal.


Thanks for your advice :clap:
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