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 Post subject: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2020, 04:47 
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Got my DVL-909 out of storage to use as a backup.

Seems that it won't correctly play Side A of LDs anymore (Side B seems fine, and Side A will play when manually flipping the disc, so it's a player issue and not a disc issue). The player seems to make a lot of seeking noises (but I don't think any louder than normal), then it will start playing at about 10 or so minutes in on a CLV disc, but there's no audio and the video is garbled. Doesn't seem like any error codes pop up.

When I try and skip chapters, the player tries to seek again, then the disc stops spinning and restarts, the player seeks again, and eventually starts playing toward the beginning of the disc (again with just garbled video). When I try the chapter skip with the cover off, I can see the laser moving frantically up and down as the pickup moves gradually back and then forward again. Doesn't look like there are any obvious internal problems, though.

Put a small bit of grease on the metal rail for Side A and adjusted the big white duckbill-shaped adjustment pot on the pickup about a quarter turn, but nothing seems to have changed. Should I try adjusting the big black pot (the one shaped like a dial)? Didn't have a big enough flathead screwdriver on hand to try turning it. I'm also unsure where else I could try adding grease, if any. The plastic rail for Side A seems to be mostly covered up by metal parts.

So far DVD playback seems fine, but when I put a CD in it wasn't even recognized (this was before I greased the rail and made the pot adjustments, though).
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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2020, 01:34 
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You need to put it in test mode and do a side A alignment. Either the pickup lenses are not operating properly for side A so the RF signal returned is too weak or the alignments mainly tile and tangential angles, or spindle motor centering are bad and need to be adjusted back into specification.
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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2020, 04:32 
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Thanks Kurtis. Will give it a try.

Took another look at the service manual and I can probably at least get it into test mode. Looked around the internet for alignment info and how to adjust the spindle motor, but couldn't find much.

Hopefully I can manage this without an oscilloscope, test disc, or service remote. Will try looking around for more info and maybe pictures/videos before I start.
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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2020, 17:54 
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Watched the CLD-S104 video that Chad Page uploaded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIMBrbRPRro

I assume the adjustments are similar for the 909, and it looks like the the Test Disc is mainly used for adjusting crosstalk using the paused Frame 115, which looks like just a mostly-white screen. So that should be easy enough with a normal retail disc, right? (I have Video Essentials and a couple 8" discs, both CLV and CAV.)

I see that Kurtis mentioned in another thread that the test disc is also used for tilt adjustment, is there a way to adjust tilt without it? The CLD-D503 service manual looks to have a nice flowchart for adjusting tilt with a CD. Can I do this with the 909, and does it have to be the test CD? http://manuals.lddb.com/LD_Players/Pion ... l_Scan.pdf
(edit: I see that it thankfully doesn't need to be a test CD! krbahr @ R7G has trouble starting Side B and gets stuck. )

The CLD-604 manual also has nice adjustment instructions, can I use those as a rough guide?
http://manuals.lddb.com/LD_Players/Pion ... l_Scan.pdf

But whether I need a test disc or not, I guess I'll definitely be needing an oscilloscope. I could probably use it for some retro game stuff (like adjusting my Turbo Duo which has been recapped but the CD audio still stops playing randomly), anyway.

Went with a Hitatchi VC-6145 scope, was only $75 shipped but only partially tested. It does have an X-Y mode, so hopefully it will work out. Should arrive in a day or two.
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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2020, 02:22 
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You have to do adjustments with a CAV recorded discs as the player is continually reading the data off the disc and displaying the picture being read even when paused. With a CLV disc when you pause you get the picture stored in the TBC memory and it does not refresh so you cannot see how your adjustment visually effects the picture.
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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2020, 03:15 
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Ah, makes sense. I was under the impression that crosstalk was more common on CLV discs, but I'll worry about adjusting that later, will mainly be using this player for music LDs so don't mind if the PQ is slightly off.
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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2020, 06:32 
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Watched some YouTube videos on oscilloscopes while poking around with the knobs and buttons, think I have the basics down.

Opened up the 909 again, but couldn't get it into Test Mode for the life of me. The service manual says "Short-circuit the terminals (TP6006 and TP6007) for test mode entry at the side of the system control IC (IC601) of DVDM ASSY", but I couldn't find any terminals marked TP6006 or TP6007, and the 909 service manual is severely lacking compared to other service manuals and doesn't have any detailed schematics of the boards. A "Test Mode" marking with a box around some solder points was next to this IC601, but shorting them didn't seem to do anything.

But luckily I have a Harmony remote, was first worried that I'd have to find some way of getting hex codes into it, but after some digging I found that the Pioneer GGF1381 test remote is one of the profiles available for download, so I was finally able to get my 909 into test mode using that. But by then it was freaking 3am, so had to pack it in.
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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2020, 17:38 
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Well it appears that I have screwed up already...

While loosening the black lock screw for Side A, it seems the entire pickup assembly has gotten dislodged from something, as it suddenly shifted to the side a bit, and now it seems to be stuck in the clamped up position, and the disc will no longer spin. I tried turning the black screw again but it will only turn about a quarter turn in either direction, and I don't want to force it. Had to unscrew and remove the top of the clamp to remove the CD I was using for testing.

I hope this player can still be salvaged, any advice on what I should do now would be greatly appreciated...

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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2020, 23:30 
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The screw is not meant to turn around completely. You turned it too far and you are hitting the back flat part. You have to manually move the top assembly to the other extreme and then turn the screw back around. Sometimes the top part looses alignment with the pins it slides on and you’ll have to realign those to get it to move.
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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2020, 18:11 
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Thank you again for all your help Kurtis. Please let me know if I can return the favor somehow, be it something from Japan, a Japanese<->English translation, a donation (Patreon, Paypal, etc.) or whatever.

Was able to get the pickup assembly mostly back into position, but unfortunately I was unable to get the black screw to go back into place, as one of its teeth broke off while I was trying to turn it.

The pickup assembly got stuck again, it will still go into the up position but it gets stuck at an angle when trying to go down.

By pins it slides on, do you the mean yellowish-white guide on the upper left (circled in the following picture)? Couldn't see anything else.
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I'm not sure if it's getting stuck because of this part, but if it is, how do I align it? If you mean something else, can you see it in the following spoiler-tagged pictures? Can you see anything that's wrong?
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I can see that the black screw's dial is pointing to the 9 o'clock position (when looking toward the back of the player), and now that I was able to get the tray out I can see that it's only meant to point at the 12/2/4/6 o'clock positions, so yeah, definitely turned it too far. I can probably turn it again, if I can find needlenose pliers at a 90-degree angle or something, but I don't think I will be able to turn it with much force without further breaking it, and at present it doesn't want to turn very far.
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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2020, 01:49 
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The metal base is actually two pieces. The top part pivots on two metal posts which allows for the tilt operation. These posts are about 2 inches behind the spindle motor. The top part also moves side to side using the adjustment screw on the posts. The posts allow the top part to both tilt and align side to side.
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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2020, 20:23 
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Sorry for the lack of updates, I figured I'd have to take the player apart, and I was right. But I successfully got the Side A centering adjustment screw back into position! Only way to get it to turn was to take out the entire loading mechanism so the screw was free to rotate, as the screw is D-shaped on the other side and was of course pressing against another part.

But now I'm not sure how to get the loading mechanism back together correctly, the adjustment screw or something seems to be blocking something (probably the part that the adjustment screw pushes against when adjusting). Really hard to see how the parts go together:
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On the bottom part of the assembly, there's also two metal brackets on either side with holes in them, and the top part has what looks like guide rods:
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I circled what I think are these brackets/rods on the 919 manual (which unfortunately doesn't show how they go together):
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Do I need to get the rods to line up and go into the brackets? Have tried putting the pieces together at various angles, but can't seem to get them lined up correctly so that the upper part is perfectly parallel with the lower part.
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 Post subject: Re: [DVL-909] Side B plays fine, but Side A is garbled
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2020, 19:19 
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Well, gave it another try tonight, messed with it for another hour but still wasn't able to get the loading mechanism together again, and I ended up breaking the "Mechanism Base" at one of its really thin sections. So guess it's time to give up.
Oh well, still have my X9, and can probably find another backup LD player for not too much here in Japan, all I need is one with digital audio output and dual sided play.

Kurtis, as a thank you for all your help here on the forums and elsewhere, I would be glad to donate my broken 909 to you as well as pay for shipping (will have to be by surface mail due to Japan Post restrictions, though). Still have the original remote and outer box (really beat up though). Please contact me if you're interested.
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