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 Post subject: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2022, 13:16 
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I was playing around with Sony HIL series players recently and wrote some notes on what i've found:

http://www.laserdisc.hu/sony_hils/

Maybe it could be interesting for other LD fans also.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2022, 14:17 
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kamm wrote:
I was playing around with Sony HIL series players recently and wrote some notes on what i've found.


Very nice, thank you!

All SONY MUSE players listed here: https://www.lddb.com/search_hardware.php?search_hw=hil-%2A&sort=model


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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2022, 20:27 
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Fantastic information! Thank you for creating this and sharing it here.

Have you thought about doing a deep dive into the KHS-160A? It seems like a lot was simplified when compared to KHS-140A.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2022, 17:54 
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cplusplus wrote:
Fantastic information! Thank you for creating this and sharing it here.

Have you thought about doing a deep dive into the KHS-160A? It seems like a lot was simplified when compared to KHS-140A.


Thank you for checking it out!
Regarding the KHS-160A, yes, thank you for your suggestion, it is on my ever-growing TODO list... :) Indeed, the 160A is much more compact!
Right now an HLD-1000 and a Toshiba XR-HD1 are on my desk.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2022, 05:46 
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I will read whatever you decide to research in the LD world. The depth of detail and time spent on the /sony_hils page is truly amazing. Many thanks!
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2022, 13:00 
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Yes, very interesting and in-depth. Really looking forward to more of this :thumbup:

Did you decide to research this very specific topic out of curiosity or for a scientific project?
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2022, 07:13 
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awesomewelles wrote:
Yes, very interesting and in-depth. Really looking forward to more of this :thumbup:

Did you decide to research this very specific topic out of curiosity or for a scientific project?


Thanks :-)
It was just curiosity now. I've did a small update on the docs though, but seems like i don't have the sophisticated equipment / parts / more time to spend on this project/topic. Anyway, it was interesting, i've learned what i wanted to learn and also had some fun while doing it.
Still, one future plan i have is to reverse engineer the code i've dumped from its MCUs to see what the system control software exactly does. And also the sw from a Pioneer HLD-1000 and a Toshiba clone. One of the MCUs in the Sony HIL-C1/1000 is very similar to the main MCU in the Pioneer HLD-1000, it seems both are MELPS740 arch (probably HLD-X9, HLD-X0 and many other Pioneer players too, but i don't have access to an X9/X0). Then it would be possible to create custom software (firmware, as we would call it today), or maybe replace the MCU itself with a modern one, which could be useful for testing/debugging the player, gathering "secret info" :lol: , creating custom OSD/front panel, use different remote control protocols, interface with a PC, etc . Well, not much practical consumer use, mostly only for fun.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2022, 19:33 
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kamm wrote:
awesomewelles wrote:
Yes, very interesting and in-depth. Really looking forward to more of this :thumbup:

Did you decide to research this very specific topic out of curiosity or for a scientific project?


Thanks :-)
It was just curiosity now. I've did a small update on the docs though, but seems like i don't have the sophisticated equipment / parts / more time to spend on this project/topic. Anyway, it was interesting, i've learned what i wanted to learn and also had some fun while doing it.
Still, one future plan i have is to reverse engineer the code i've dumped from its MCUs to see what the system control software exactly does. And also the sw from a Pioneer HLD-1000 and a Toshiba clone. One of the MCUs in the Sony HIL-C1/1000 is very similar to the main MCU in the Pioneer HLD-1000, it seems both are MELPS740 arch (probably HLD-X9, HLD-X0 and many other Pioneer players too, but i don't have access to an X9/X0). Then it would be possible to create custom software (firmware, as we would call it today), or maybe replace the MCU itself with a modern one, which could be useful for testing/debugging the player, gathering "secret info" :lol: , creating custom OSD/front panel, use different remote control protocols, interface with a PC, etc . Well, not much practical consumer use, mostly only for fun.


Any chance you could document the dip-switch functional differences between the C1 and the 1000? I have a HIL-1000 optional remote and need to figure out how to get the microcontroller to recognize the signal input. I know the switch settings allow for the use of a standard Sony laserdisc remote on the 1000. Hopeful the 1000 remote can be used on a C1.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 16 Nov 2022, 15:53 
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drewmanfu0 wrote:
Any chance you could document the dip-switch functional differences between the C1 and the 1000? I have a HIL-1000 optional remote and need to figure out how to get the microcontroller to recognize the signal input. I know the switch settings allow for the use of a standard Sony laserdisc remote on the 1000. Hopeful the 1000 remote can be used on a C1.


Do you mean the 4 DIP switches "hidden" under the plastic sheet sticker on the back? I tried a couple of combinations but it didn't seem to affect anything regarding the remote control :-(
On the HIL-1000, yes it is possible to switch between "consumer"/"industrial" mode. It's switch 8 on the "SET UP" DIP switches (ON (up) sets it to "consumer"). That makes the C1's RMT-M18 work (in TEST mode too!) and also disables auto-play of discs, and maybe some other stuff (disables RS232 port? - just a guess, didn't try).
I've made a fast comparison between the ROM dumps i made from the "Interface Control" MCUs handling the IR input from the HIL-1000/HIL-C1 (V2.1 vs V2.0), not much difference, but some are I/O related. Not even sure whether those are HIL-1000/C1 differences or not, can be only because of the minor version step.
I will try to trace down the "SET UP" switches (especially switch 8) sometime.

Can i ask what is the type of the remote you have for the HIL-1000?
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 09 May 2023, 23:56 
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I read the update you posted on the mapping of the HIL-1000 extra switches. It confirms my suspicion that the HIL-1000 did indeed use a different SA-701 board with extra connections. Seems strange the C1 board actually has provisions for RS-232 components.

I have a RM-2001A that's black with HDVS logo on it. I have a C1 open and am going to pull the MCU out and lift the pin tied to switch 8 and pull it high with a 1k resistor and see if it brings the pro remote to life.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 13 May 2023, 16:39 
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The consumer V2.0 IC114 does not set industrial mode by pulling pin 49 high.

I did have a C1 with a custom chip for IC105. Sadly I don't have the player any longer to have the ROM dumped for comparison.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CUkWfGZPgHxiLcCy6
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2023, 11:52 
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I have a Panasonic LX-HD20 here. Unfortunately it won't play any disc. It is not even spinning up. I can open and close the tray and it will recognize if a disc is inserted or not. However it will never spin up.

The laser seems to be working, at least I can see some red light.

I tried to enter the DEBUG / TEST mode but the key combination won't work. It seems it is not a 100% clone of the Sony. I don't have the original remote so I tried a universal one (IM-1313) and all Sony codes failed but one Panasonic did work. So I can operate the player with the remote but the codes to enter Test mode seem different.

Any tips on what the issue might be or does anyone know how to enter the TEST mode on the Panasonic?

Or any other idea on what could be wrong and how it can be fixed?

Switching to side B also does not work. The mechanism seems to hang a some point, making terrible noises
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2023, 05:50 
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drewmanfu0 wrote:
I read the update you posted on the mapping of the HIL-1000 extra switches. It confirms my suspicion that the HIL-1000 did indeed use a different SA-701 board with extra connections. Seems strange the C1 board actually has provisions for RS-232 components.


Yes, i can confirm your suspicion too, the HIL-1000 and HIL-C1s i've seen had slightly different SA-701 boards, and if i can recall correctly, the service manual (the one here on LDDB) shows a bit different PCBs (but maybe not for SA-701, i don't remember :roll: ) compared to what i've seen in real players. So there could be even more versions. Would be interesting to see what's inside the golden C1, my guess is that the golden ones were the first versions.
I'm not sure that these differences are just version/revision differences or something specially modified for the HIL-1000, it would make sense to use the same SA-701 for C1 and 1000. Maybe some day we will find out.
Also there's a resistor array right next to the MCU (pull ups for the SET UP dip switch), which is absent on the C1.

drewmanfu0 wrote:
I have a RM-2001A that's black with HDVS logo on it. I have a C1 open and am going to pull the MCU out and lift the pin tied to switch 8 and pull it high with a 1k resistor and see if it brings the pro remote to life.


Is there any chance you could share a photo of this remote? Never seen it anywhere before.

drewmanfu0 wrote:
The consumer V2.0 IC114 does not set industrial mode by pulling pin 49 high.


Sad to hear it didn't work.

drewmanfu0 wrote:
I did have a C1 with a custom chip for IC105. Sadly I don't have the player any longer to have the ROM dumped for comparison.


Wow, an eeprom version, looks super cool ("新しい" :thumbup: ), thanks for uploading it!
Can i include/refer to your photo in the Sony HILs docs?
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2023, 07:51 
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drecksoft wrote:
I have a Panasonic LX-HD20 here. Unfortunately it won't play any disc. It is not even spinning up. I can open and close the tray and it will recognize if a disc is inserted or not. However it will never spin up.

I tried to enter the DEBUG / TEST mode but the key combination won't work. It seems it is not a 100% clone of the Sony. I don't have the original remote so I tried a universal one (IM-1313) and all Sony codes failed but one Panasonic did work. So I can operate the player with the remote but the codes to enter Test mode seem different.

Any tips on what the issue might be or does anyone know how to enter the TEST mode on the Panasonic?

Or any other idea on what could be wrong and how it can be fixed?

Switching to side B also does not work. The mechanism seems to hang a some point, making terrible noises


Well, these machines tend to have lots of problems after 30+ years.
It could be tempting to grab a junk one from yauc, when the description says that tray doesn't open, etc.
It would make sense to think that it's only a loose/degraded loading belt. Well, the belt can be fixed easily, but that's just one thing... Actually the ones which are not sold as working/tested will certainly have (many) other problems, mechanical, sensors, laser pickup...

I don't have an LX-HD20, but i have the remote for it. I can confirm that it's a totally different one than the original Sony, and it sends Panasonic codes.
I couldn't make it (the Panasonic remote) work with HIL-C2EXs. Tried switching the "Panasonic/Normal" and the LDP switches, but no luck.
Have you tried those switches on your LX-HD20 and using a Sony remote?

Btw, I made some updates to the above docs with some info on the remote controls for HIL-C1/C2 and the C1's "mode switch".
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2023, 22:56 
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In order to use the Panasonic remote on a Sony player the LDP1/2 switch needs to be desoldered and reversed to the inside of the player and set to "Normal" on the silkscreen.

In order to send service codes to a Panasonic player a RMT-M18 or RMT-M28 remote set to LDP2 position must be used or the remote for a LX-HD10 must be used. The player must be opened and the switch on the rear by the output jacks must be set to the OEM position.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2024, 10:58 
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kamm wrote:
drecksoft wrote:
I have a Panasonic LX-HD20 here. Unfortunately it won't play any disc. It is not even spinning up. I can open and close the tray and it will recognize if a disc is inserted or not. However it will never spin up.

I tried to enter the DEBUG / TEST mode but the key combination won't work. It seems it is not a 100% clone of the Sony. I don't have the original remote so I tried a universal one (IM-1313) and all Sony codes failed but one Panasonic did work. So I can operate the player with the remote but the codes to enter Test mode seem different.

Any tips on what the issue might be or does anyone know how to enter the TEST mode on the Panasonic?

Or any other idea on what could be wrong and how it can be fixed?

Switching to side B also does not work. The mechanism seems to hang a some point, making terrible noises


Well, these machines tend to have lots of problems after 30+ years.
It could be tempting to grab a junk one from yauc, when the description says that tray doesn't open, etc.
It would make sense to think that it's only a loose/degraded loading belt. Well, the belt can be fixed easily, but that's just one thing... Actually the ones which are not sold as working/tested will certainly have (many) other problems, mechanical, sensors, laser pickup...

I don't have an LX-HD20, but i have the remote for it. I can confirm that it's a totally different one than the original Sony, and it sends Panasonic codes.
I couldn't make it (the Panasonic remote) work with HIL-C2EXs. Tried switching the "Panasonic/Normal" and the LDP switches, but no luck.
Have you tried those switches on your LX-HD20 and using a Sony remote?

Btw, I made some updates to the above docs with some info on the remote controls for HIL-C1/C2 and the C1's "mode switch".


I was playing around with the player again after some time. Currently I can't get ANY codes working on the universal remote. Unfortunately I didn't write down the code number that previously worked. I think it's unlikely that the IR sensor is broken now and I just used the wrong codes.

I found out that the "strange noise" switching to side B comes from the motor / gears in the back. Either the spring is no longer strong enough to hold the gears against each other or the belt moving the pickup is not going smoothly enough (actually seems like it). If I push the gears together, the player will switch to side B. But won't spin up there either.

I see red light coming from the laser so I assume that one is OK.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2024, 12:44 
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Quote:
I was playing around with the player again after some time. Currently I can't get ANY codes working on the universal remote. Unfortunately I didn't write down the code number that previously worked. I think it's unlikely that the IR sensor is broken now and I just used the wrong codes.


Open the player and there is a switch in the back by the video jacks. Set the switch to OEM. Sony codes will work the player in this mode.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2024, 13:57 
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No, It won't. I know the correct Sony code for my remote.

However, I found out that when you play with the switches, the device needs to be unplugged to use the new setting.

I found the code I previously used and I can turn on / off, play / pause and so on. However, the 0-9 keys are not recognized, so 0 - STOP for the test mode does not work.

Panasonic seems to use a very rare code set on that player as only one of my three universal remotes work at all.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2024, 14:05 
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drecksoft wrote:
No, It won't. I know the correct Sony code for my remote.

However, I found out that when you play with the switches, the device needs to be unplugged to use the new setting.

I found the code I previously used and I can turn on / off, play / pause and so on. However, the 0-9 keys are not recognized, so 0 - STOP for the test mode does not work.

Panasonic seems to use a very rare code set on that player as only one of my three universal remotes work at all.


The switch marked Panasonic is not related to remote functions. There is a switch mounted to the video jacks and it switches the unit to recognize Sony 2 for LD. It absolutely works, it's how you enter service mode for calibration.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony HIL-* MUSE players
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2024, 14:49 
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You could always find one of these and use it with the player in the OEM position.


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