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 Post subject: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2019, 15:43 
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I've never seen any pics inside of this one so here are some pictures and a video, I think it needs a new laser, any repair advice is welcomed. I think it's a very cool design and should perform really well when / if I get it going -



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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 01:09 
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I love that thing. The best looking LD player every made imo

Good luck.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 23:30 
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forper wrote:
I love that thing. The best looking LD player every made imo

Good luck.


If I can't get it working it's still going on display lol.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 01:34 
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while that is a nice machine and would be great on display.
I had a broken one of this but would of love a working one. I suppose I like it for the blue light in the middle and the curves. If I had found this one earlier I might have been able to get it. I hope you get yours working.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Philip ... _cvip=true
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 08:19 
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What are the dimensions? It looks less bulky than the Pioneer MUSE Hi-Vision players.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2020, 11:51 
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So it took over a year and four players purchased but I finally have a perfectly working HIL-C1. Lucky #4 unexpectedly came in mint condition with a pretty professional looking AC-3 mod and factory remote.

My buddy Bill Deleo who gets all the credit for repairing this one has successfully built a Sony calibration jig so we can now scope calibrate both HIL-C1 and HIL-C2EX.

What we have figured out is that there may be a trick to swapping the laser assembly out, there is an angle that appears to be factory set that *might* have something to do with the issue. We have verified that the other players I have work by swapping in the laser from lucky #4 (first one to come that had a non dead laser). I have (2) NOS lasers that we have not been able to get working so they were either DOA or there is a trick to swapping them out. I also have (2) more NOS that will be tested soon.

The quality of the image coming from this player is second (and its a very arguable second) only to HLD-X0, no other Pioneer player can come close to this Sony.

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Last edited by pbiancardi on 12 Jun 2020, 14:53, edited 1 time in total. _________________
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2020, 14:31 
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Oh so f***en sweet. Congratulations.

Makes me sad that a working C1 or C2EX is such a reach. Well done though, you have overcome.

I dislike Pioneer and would love to go a pure Sony route for LD perfection.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2020, 14:51 
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forper wrote:
Oh so f***en sweet. Congratulations.

Makes me sad that a working C1 or C2EX is such a reach. Well done though, you have overcome.

I dislike Pioneer and would love to go a pure Sony route for LD perfection.


C2EX pop up all the time and there are still NOS lasers so that is well within reach.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2020, 02:31 
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Anytime you go with a quality linear power supply (these have much lower noise in the provided power than the switching power supplies in the newer units) and a single sided player you have the possibility of a cleaner picture. This is why the Pioneer LD-S2 and HLD-X0 are highly regarded. Single sided players allow all the alignment to be fine tuned to play from the bottom only and all interferences from noise are confined to playing from the bottom during the board design layout.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2020, 22:58 
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krbahr wrote:
Anytime you go with a quality linear power supply (these have much lower noise in the provided power than the switching power supplies in the newer units) and a single sided player you have the possibility of a cleaner picture. This is why the Pioneer LD-S2 and HLD-X0 are highly regarded. Single sided players allow all the alignment to be fine tuned to play from the bottom only and all interferences from noise are confined to playing from the bottom during the board design layout.


It's an absolutely amazing player, Bill side by side compared it very favorably to X0. I've been watching discs all weekend and I think it's better than any Pioneer short of **maybe** the X0 and at 1/20th the cost you can't really beat it.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2020, 16:36 
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pbiancardi wrote:
I have (2) NOS lasers that we have not been able to get working so they were either DOA or there is a trick to swapping them out. I also have (2) more NOS that will be tested soon.


When I was repairing Wii and Playstation consoles I would often buy new laser assemblies. They would come with a solder blob bridging two contacts for transportation. You would have to desolder blob for the laser to work. This may not be the case on your NOS lasers but I figured I'd mention it.

The blob on the Wii laser is on the ribbon cable next to this guy's left thumb.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2020, 17:04 
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Great to see this working! Hopefully now you can fix the rest! :P
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2020, 01:22 
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makmak16 wrote:
pbiancardi wrote:
I have (2) NOS lasers that we have not been able to get working so they were either DOA or there is a trick to swapping them out. I also have (2) more NOS that will be tested soon.


When I was repairing Wii and Playstation consoles I would often buy new laser assemblies. They would come with a solder blob bridging two contacts for transportation. You would have to desolder blob for the laser to work. This may not be the case on your NOS lasers but I figured I'd mention it.

The blob on the Wii laser is on the ribbon cable next to this guy's left thumb.
Image


I'm aware, these Sony lasers don't have this.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 07:32 
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Found the service manual on hifiengine - the player has a less sophisticated comb filter (2D, recombined YC on composite out), but assuming the noise going into it is lower, I could easily see it being between an X9 and the X0. Especially if the analog filtering is done right without adding ringing etc, which would place it well beyond the X9. I think the X0 was the only Pioneer player that got it right *and* had a decent comb filter.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 11:47 
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happycube wrote:
Found the service manual on hifiengine - the player has a less sophisticated comb filter (2D, recombined YC on composite out), but assuming the noise going into it is lower, I could easily see it being between an X9 and the X0. Especially if the analog filtering is done right without adding ringing etc, which would place it well beyond the X9. I think the X0 was the only Pioneer player that got it right *and* had a decent comb filter.


Interesting, have you looked at the C2EX service manual to see exactly what is going on with the BNC direct out (I have but I do not have any real technical expertise / understanding of what is going on). In practice the C1 to me has the cleaner, better picture so I am really curious why it does. I don't currently have an X0 to compare it to but my buddy that built the alignment jig does and he thinks it is right there with the X0 picture wise, I dont think there is any doubt it beats the X9.

New information - I just got in (2) more NOS lasers and only one of them works so over the last year I am 1/4 with NOS lasers, there is clearly an issue with these going bad on the shelf. Anyway we now have (2) working players with the ability to make at least one more if we can get another working laser. I also added a power supply which I had already recapped into my working player and this seemed to bring the level of noise down a bit further.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 15:11 
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It looks like the C2-EX has a direct amp/output split from the digital TBC's analog output.

On paper the C2 should be better (it has a 3D comb filter, I haven't checked which one it is though), but in practice perhaps the power supply and analog path before the processing electronics isn't as good, or the player is harder to align perfectly for some reason. Is the optical block clean/unscratched? simoni's seen a lot of used V4300D/4400 optical decks that are scratched up from disks or abrasive cleaning (incl q-tips) and it's impossible to get those working 100% again.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 15:15 
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happycube wrote:
It looks like the C2-EX has a direct amp/output split from the digital TBC's analog output.

On paper the C2 should be better (it has a 3D comb filter, I haven't checked which one it is though), but in practice perhaps the power supply and analog path before the processing electronics isn't as good, or the player is harder to align perfectly for some reason. Is the optical block clean/unscratched? simoni's seen a lot of used V4300D/4400 optical decks that are scratched up from disks or abrasive cleaning (incl q-tips) and it's impossible to get those working 100% again.


My C2's have NOS lasers so they **should** be perfect. The C1 is scope calibrated while the C2EX's pre-date the alignment jig so they were done by hand best guess so maybe that affects PQ.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 16:02 
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I'd recommend re-calibrating the C2 then, if it's not too hard. Player calibration really does matter :)
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 16:13 
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happycube wrote:
I'd recommend re-calibrating the C2 then, if it's not too hard. Player calibration really does matter :)


Working on it, only one jig in existence as far as we can tell lol.
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 Post subject: Re: Work in Progress / Look Inside Sony HIL-C1
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2020, 15:10 
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Thanks a lot pbiancardi for the insight and detailed information on those Sony units - genuinely interesting! I've been searching for a working C1 / C2 for years now but haven't had any luck thus far. Still hoping to get my hands on a working unit one fine day...
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