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[LA-2500] Issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=8983		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  spudeus [ 14 Apr 2020, 13:50 ]
Post subject:  [LA-2500] Issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
Had a Denon LA-2500 player delivered a few days ago (I understand it is a Pioneer clone). 1994 date, powered on, thinks for a few seconds but tray ejects fine. Tested CLV discs and it was a mess - lots of noise/interference in the picture - both horizontal bands and a rotating vertical one! But, I then tried a CAV disc and there's a good, solid picture (audio seems fine on both types).

What gives? Some kind of alignment issue? 90-95% of my LDs are CLV, so I'm kind of writing this off as a loss. . .any tips appreciated!
Author:  spyrogyro [ 14 Apr 2020, 15:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
Do your CLV discs play better after about 10 -15 minutes of play? Less horizontal and scrolling bands? And usually they go completely away, that is until side B starts playing, and then all that interference starts up again. If so, I have a similar issue with a DVL-919. And it does it on any and every CLV disc that I've tried it with.

So this thread could be of interest to me as well.

I've opened up my unit and tinkered slightly with the various pots. Track, Tilt, focus. It hasn't helped any.
Author:  cplusplus [ 14 Apr 2020, 19:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
LA-2500 is a CLD-D503 with optical out and a nicer remote.

Can you post a photo of the issue?
Author:  signofzeta [ 14 Apr 2020, 20:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
If I had a 503 doing this I would assume it was alignment. On a CRT you’ll see a classic “herringbone” pattern as crosstalk from the leading and previous tracks in the spiral are affecting the main signal. This is virtually invisible on CAV discs because the errant frames are always in phase. On digital TVs...due to all the signal processing and the inherent aliasing that takes place when digitizing NTSC, sometimes it looks more “terrible” than herringbone making it hard to be sure that you’re seeing crosstalk. (It helps to have a CRT around if you’re into LD. Even if it’s not your main set, just for diagnosis.)

You need a scope, a test disc, and a service manual, as far as I know, for alignment.
Author:  spudeus [ 14 Apr 2020, 21:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
I got impatient after 5 minutes or so, will run it longer to see if it improves but am not hopeful. . . will try to take a pic and post here.

The 2500 is going straight into a 4K LED TV, I'm afraid I got rid of all my CRTs. I will say my other LD players provide a clean, more than passable picture on the 4K. I fear it is a deep tech issue beyond my meagre mechanical ability. . . which means I pretty much burned $100 :oops:

I'm seriously considering hunting down a Panasonic - nothing fancy but they seem known for their durability.
Author:  cplusplus [ 14 Apr 2020, 22:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
spudeus wrote:
I'm seriously considering hunting down a Panasonic - nothing fancy but they seem known for their durability.

If by delivered you mean this LA-2500 was shipped to you, durability pretty much goes out the window. The LA-2500/CLD-D503 is durable. The only issue I have seen on them is the grip ring. Kurtis mentioned they can suffer from a cap issue that can cause the video to fail, but since CAV is fine this points to alignment (especially if it was shipped).

While taking the photo, see if it is worse at the end of the disc.
Author:  signofzeta [ 14 Apr 2020, 22:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
spudeus wrote:
I got impatient after 5 minutes or so, will run it longer to see if it improves but am not hopeful. . . will try to take a pic and post here.

The 2500 is going straight into a 4K LED TV, I'm afraid I got rid of all my CRTs. I will say my other LD players provide a clean, more than passable picture on the 4K. I fear it is a deep tech issue beyond my meagre mechanical ability. . . which means I pretty much burned $100 :oops:

I'm seriously considering hunting down a Panasonic - nothing fancy but they seem known for their durability.


While eBay looks like a LD player store with every model ever made in stock at the same time the reality is that most of those players haven’t been switched on in 20 years. When powered up they bind themselves so much they break themselves and when they get shipped something else breaks. eBay is like a store that breaks LD players instead of fixing them.

“Reliability” isn’t really a thing when all the stuff is old and there are no spares. It would be more than fair for any LD player ever made to be broken by now. From my experience as long as you don’t leave them off for 20 years or ship them LD players are quite reliable. I’ve only ever had Pioneer LD players and one of them is a 503 that works fine. I was just using it the other day.

If your 503 only needs an alignment then that’s pretty good, honestly. No parts needed, you can’t do much better short of “trouble free” and frankly if you want only trouble free running from a format that’s been dead for 20 years you may be asking too much.
Author:  spudeus [ 15 Apr 2020, 14:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
Here's a shot of The Professional LD, about 20 minutes in. You can see weird horizontal banding, which is in every shot (with occasional vertical stripes).

https://postimg.cc/bDbVfCnr

Zeta, with respect my experience doesn't track with yours. My first LD player was the basic CLD-1070 given to me by a friend - still works fine but is more of a back-up. My CLD-701 was purchased on ebay, shipped thousands of miles from California, but arrived in pristine shape, with remote, no problems whatsoever - my go-to player. Finally, I made an online purchase of my 504, but picked it up in person - we literally met in a parking lot. The seller made a point of saying he had used/maintained/replaced belts on it, but in practice it's been temperamental - doesn't always play the disc without a few ejects/inserts first! The Denon is the first one I've had with a major problem, probably just luck of the draw.

I agree that for the most part these old players were built to last - I find them much more solid than today's consumer-grade stuff. I've been purchasing them so that I can rotate models in and out of my system, and thus will always have a back-up as opposed to all my eggs in one basket, so to speak. . .
Author:  signofzeta [ 15 Apr 2020, 17:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
Yep, that’s crosstalk. If it looks that way on Side A and Side B both then almost certainly alignment will fix it. Keep the player around until you hopefully get lucky and find some way to get someone to align it.
Author:  spyrogyro [ 15 Apr 2020, 17:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
Different player but here is a thread of crosstalk issues which the owner apparently sorted out by adjusting the Tilt.
[CLD-R7G] Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
Author:  cplusplus [ 15 Apr 2020, 17:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
See if there is any crosstalk on side B. There is a tilt offset for each side.

You need a test disc to properly set this, else it would be the trial and error method as the member did in the above post.

Sometimes crosstalk can't be corrected well enough adjusting tilt offset so you have to make other adjustments and then revisit the tilt offset.
Author:  spudeus [ 16 Apr 2020, 13:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
Thanks all for the feedback and tips. Crosstalk appears using A and B - plus I'm starting to notice sharp audio crackling on some discs as well! :x This is likely no more than a parts supply; not necessarily going to demand a refund but am not going to give the seller positive feedback.
Author:  cplusplus [ 16 Apr 2020, 22:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Denon LA-2500 issue: CAV good, CLV crap!
Yeah I don't think it would be just a tilt adjustment then. Sounds like it might have been knocked around pretty hard in shipping.
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