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 Post subject: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 08:46 
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Would it be possible to add a "Hybrid open-matte" category for movies with opened top-bottom, but cutted left-right, compared to wide screen version.
It's the 3rd movie I watch this year with this size, and it is quite interesting size : You can see more than a normal pan/scan movie, and with better quality than a zoomed letterbox.
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 10:56 
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mimylovesjapan wrote:
Would it be possible to add a "Hybrid open-matte" category for movies with opened top-bottom, but cutted left-right, compared to wide screen version.
It's the 3rd movie I watch this year with this size, and it is quite interesting size : You can see more than a normal pan/scan movie, and with better quality than a zoomed letterbox.


Would that be a Super 35 or related?

https://www.lddb.com/help_ratio.php#others

I could be VERY accurate on the ratio descriptions ... but already P&S vs Open Matte is confusing a LOT of the users here.
Maybe some extra notes for these specific titles could be enough?

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 12:07 
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Yes ! It is clearly Super35 matting ! Thank you !
Then, for those disc, how do we categorize it ?
"Pan scan" with "Super35 matting" in extra note ? Or "open matte" with "Super35 matting" in extra note ? Or do we add a new category (Super35 matting) ?
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 12:39 
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I think a new category would be appropriate. It is a legitimate industry practice after all, just like academy ratio.
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 15:19 
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takeshi666 wrote:
I think a new category would be appropriate. It is a legitimate industry practice after all, just like academy ratio.


Then... we'd need a "Super 35 Matted Widescreen" and a "Super 35 Matted Full Screen"?

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 19:26 
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One confusing factor is that it isn't always clear that when a film is shot on Super 35 if it was shot with three or four perforations per frame, thus the negative aspect ratio differs from film to film. Unless you have data for the specific film you will need to compare the edition to another one that you know is presented in the proper aspect ratio.

I honestly don't think we should have a category for releases with S35 features presented in their OAR. They should just be considered letterboxed. It would certainly be a good thing however if more releases were accurately listed as open matte rather than P&S whenever that's the case though many feature films have different matting throughout so there's rarely a cut and dry answer for these questions.
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 20:06 
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admin wrote:
takeshi666 wrote:
I think a new category would be appropriate. It is a legitimate industry practice after all, just like academy ratio.


Then... we'd need a "Super 35 Matted Widescreen" and a "Super 35 Matted Full Screen"?

I hadn't even thought of that.

How many people besides James Cameron utilized Super 35 anyway?

I have a vague recollection that the aerial footage - that is, the footage shot by a camera mounted on a jet fighter - in Top Gun were shot this way, but the rest of the movie was shot in standard scope.
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 23:29 
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It's easy today, thanks to you tube and other, to compare LD version to a widescreen version.
You can easly find the entire movie (for old movies) or CM movies promoting the DVD version.
"Super 35 Matted Widescreen" and a "Super 35 Matted Full Screen" categories would be great, in my opinion. But extra notes are OK too...

edit :
We also have some Matted version that are not Super 35. Like 1.66:1 movies cropped to fit in 1.78:1.
Maybe we should have more general categories for these case like :

- letterbox (true widescreen)
- letterbox (cropped)
- widescreen (true)
- widescreen (cropped)
- widescreen (squeezed) (because squeeze LD are not real widescreen recorded)
- video size
- pan/scan
- open matte
- open matte (cropped)


Maybe we don't need the category Hi-vision 16/9, as it is nothing more than normal widescreen (high definition is not a size). And, as there are Muse in 4/3 size.
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2019, 11:16 
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mimylovesjapan wrote:
- letterbox (cropped)

The proper industry term is "matted". :)

I think it'd be better to simply used established terminology to avoid confusion. Squeeze discs already have their own special label anyway. Also how can open matte be cropped when it's already uncropped by definition?

Maybe we should just leave Super 35 titles the way they are, "widescreen" and "fullscreen", since neither specifies which way they're matted or unmatted, and anybody interested in any particular movie can just look at the technical specs on the IMDB page to see what it means.
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2019, 14:02 
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takeshi666 wrote:
I think it'd be better to simply used established terminology to avoid confusion.


that's true.

takeshi666 wrote:
Squeeze discs already have their own special label anyway.

They have a SQZ logo, but the size category (Widescreen 16/9) is not true, as it is not widescreen but squeezed widescreen. But I don't mind so much ^^

takeshi666 wrote:
Also how can open matte be cropped when it's already uncropped by definition?

Yes, you're right. But letting these movies inside the Pan/scan category would be a big loss, as there are not showing less picture than a matted widescreen LD.
The risk with that is to forget lot of movie versions with lot of potential, just because they are pan/scan catagorized.

takeshi666 wrote:
Maybe we should just leave Super 35 titles the way they are, "widescreen" and "fullscreen", since neither specifies which way they're matted or unmatted, and anybody interested in any particular movie can just look at the technical specs on the IMDB page to see what it means.

It is not only about Super 35 titles (lot of 1.66:1 movies are matted in 1.78:1).
And also,"fullscreen" category don't exist now : the actual "pan/scan" terminology is disciminating those editions. When I started LD collection I was also focusing on letterbox only, which is not always the best choice, if you have a good "fullscreen matted" movie.
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2019, 15:35 
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2019, 15:38 
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So what is squeeze LD exactly? That always kinda confused me.
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2019, 15:52 
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gypsy wrote:
So what is squeeze LD exactly? That always kinda confused me.

The film will be squeezed on the sides so when you play it on a 16:9 set it will spread it out and fill the screen.

If you have your TV setting on full I think then it will look right, if you watch it on a 4:3 set it will look squished a little.

But the way TVs are now and when I go to the gym I don't think anybody would care if it looked off as they
can't figure how to adjust the TVs now :crazy:
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2019, 16:25 
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There are also some early unintentionally squeezed disks (a few Discovisions and at least one early Fox disk...)

Another option is to leave comments on individual disks, but that's less searchable.
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2019, 16:47 
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I hope you can answer this one Happycube.
I had Smokey And the Bandit II Discovision and I swear the beginning Universal was widescreen, did you ever notice that?
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 00:57 
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happycube is right. I saw some movies with parts of movie squeezed. Essentially during first 5 or 10 min (like rein-o said). If I can well remember, The devils (NJL-11110) begining is an intentionaly squeeze.

For the good solution, I let the others decide ^^.
although, my favorite option would be the list I wrote above.
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 01:06 
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The only one I know I own 100% that has a squeezed beginning is Watch Out, We're Mad! (1974) [SF078-5034]

I believe this had squeezed credits, but it was done very fast and hard to tell Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man (1991) [ML102514]
I don't own this disc anymore.

Its one of those things where it wasn't really that wide to begin with and they would do it to fit the credits.
So its not really a squeezed thing but more of a fitting to TVs at the time.
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 04:48 
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rein-o wrote:
gypsy wrote:
So what is squeeze LD exactly? That always kinda confused me.

The film will be squeezed on the sides so when you play it on a 16:9 set it will spread it out and fill the screen.

If you have your TV setting on full I think then it will look right, if you watch it on a 4:3 set it will look squished a little.

But the way TVs are now and when I go to the gym I don't think anybody would care if it looked off as they
can't figure how to adjust the TVs now :crazy:


So would it be like the Enhanced 16x9 thing on DVDs?
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 11:20 
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gypsy wrote:
So what is squeeze LD exactly? That always kinda confused me.


Help section to the rescue :-)

https://www.lddb.com/help_ratio.php#squeeze

The way I understood it is that LD is always unsqueezed horizontally for 16/9 (no 4/3 mode), while anamorphic DVD was unsqueezed vertically for 4/3 and horizontally for 16/9.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamorphic_widescreen#DVD_Video

http://ifuhavetoask.blogspot.com/2007/07/anamorphic-widescreen-how-do-i-get-best.html

Image

Image Image


Looks like the Wikipedia entry needs a Laserdisc section :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid open-matte
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2019, 11:57 
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admin wrote:
gypsy wrote:
Looks like the Wikipedia entry needs a Laserdisc section :-)


Added!

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