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alexpigment
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Post subject: New player acquisitions, repairs - advice on DVD recorder? Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 17:37 |
Genuinely interested |
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Joined: 24 Mar 2019, 06:31 Posts: 53 Location: United States Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 0 time
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Hey guys,
So a few weeks ago I purchased a Pioneer CLD-1080 locally. It's single side only, but works perfectly. Honestly, the single side doesn't bother me since I'm using this for captures, and most discs I'm dealing with are single side anyway.
I also had a CLD-D604 before that with a broken m-holder, but I recently got a VNL1700 in the mail and repaired this player.
The same day, I got a new CLD-D703 in the mail from eBay. It's a little wonky - sometimes it spits out the disc but generally always works on the second attempt. I assume this is an easy fix (a belt cleaning or something), but I haven't had the time/need to look into it yet. Playback seems fine.
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Anyway, I was doing comparisons between the 3 players and honestly, I'm not seeing a whole lot different between them. There are a few things I can see, but not at all the night-and-day difference that I think I should expect based on the many posts I've read. I'm wondering if my passthrough device (Panasonic DMR-EZ47V) might be limiting the quality I'm getting.
I've read the entire sticky thread about DVD recorders and I don't feel like I have a definitive answer on what's good/bad. I know the ES10 and ES15 are highly recommended, but my problem with those is that they limit to 704x480 rather than 720x480. I know it seems mostly academic, but I'd like to make sure I am capturing in full D1 if at all possible. Secondly, I have had several Panasonic recorders from that era die on me. I'd ideally like to get something newer. And while this may seem like a stretch, I'd ideally like to find one that can do HDMI out at 480i. If that's not possible, staying with component out is fine.
Can anyone recommend a model that fits the bill and has a good comb filter? I think I have an EH50 and E20 in working condition (as well as a Samsung model somewhere), but these don't seem like the best candidates from what I gather (even though the EH50 seems to share the same chip as the ES10/ES15). Thanks in advance.
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alexpigment
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Post subject: Re: New player acquisitions, repairs - advice on DVD recorde Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 22:58 |
Genuinely interested |
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Joined: 24 Mar 2019, 06:31 Posts: 53 Location: United States Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 0 time
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Well, I looked in my closet of old goodwill electronics finds, and I had a DMR-E20 and a DMR-E30 (both working), as well as a dead DMR-ES20 and (a second) dead EH50. The E20 and E30 both have 3D comb filters according to the menu. Surprisingly, they both show up as 720x480 in my capture device - maybe I was just remembering them being 704x480 when recording onto a disc.
I tested both the E20 and E30 and they brighten the image enough to where it's hard to do comparisons, and essentially makes it necessary for post-processing. I think this puts these two out of the running.
The DMR-EH50 does seem to do something different that eliminates some chroma noise, but it's still pretty hard to tell if this is a 3D comb filter. I feel like it also introduces a little bit of MPEG encoding artifacts during transitions and fades. Honestly, I've got like 20 files to compare between the different LD players, the different DVD recorders, V-DNR on/off/tweaked, etc. This is the type of judgement-call vortex that I really hate being in - just kinda wish there was someone saying "hey, buy this and you're good to go"...
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rein-o
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Post subject: Re: New player acquisitions, repairs - advice on DVD recorde Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 23:44 |
Jedi Master |
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Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05 Posts: 8119 Location: Dullaware Has thanked: 1228 times Been thanked: 851 times
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alexpigment wrote: This is the type of judgement-call vortex that I really hate being in - just kinda wish there was someone saying "hey, buy this and you're good to go"... Since you are the only one interested in this type of thing its hard to do so. I had a DVD recorder about 6? years ago and it was great to rip some stuff but I no longer have it nor do I care to make copies of my discs. I like watching my LDs with an LD player, that's why I collect them.
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alexpigment
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Post subject: Re: New player acquisitions, repairs - advice on DVD recorde Posted: 26 Apr 2019, 00:16 |
Genuinely interested |
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Joined: 24 Mar 2019, 06:31 Posts: 53 Location: United States Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 0 time
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rein-o wrote: alexpigment wrote: This is the type of judgement-call vortex that I really hate being in - just kinda wish there was someone saying "hey, buy this and you're good to go"... Since you are the only one interested in this type of thing its hard to do so. I had a DVD recorder about 6? years ago and it was great to rip some stuff but I no longer have it nor do I care to make copies of my discs. I like watching my LDs with an LD player, that's why I collect them. I'm the only one interested in this type of thing? I know I'm not the only one capturing laserdiscs for posterity. Also, the only discs I own are ones with music videos on it, and those are better served in a file system where you can quickly access each video. Imagine having to put in a new laserdisc every 4 minutes! At any rate, I'm trying to get the best possible capture setup within reason. When I find problems, I try to solve them rather than live with them. I know there are experts here who have put the time into this and know what works well what doesn't. Maybe they don't read the forums actively or maybe they just don't care to respond. Also keep in mind, the DVD recorder is just there as a passthrough to convert from composite to component (or HDMI preferably) - I wouldn't be putting this much time and effort into it if I were limited to ~8mbps MPEG-2 and the fine details were destroyed. I also wouldn't be investing in Laserdisc if I were perfectly happy with VHS captures on high end equipment. Hopefully that put things into perspective.
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rein-o
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Post subject: Re: New player acquisitions, repairs - advice on DVD recorde Posted: 26 Apr 2019, 01:49 |
Jedi Master |
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Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05 Posts: 8119 Location: Dullaware Has thanked: 1228 times Been thanked: 851 times
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alexpigment wrote: I know I'm not the only one capturing laserdiscs for posterity.
Well then, you should ask them what they are using.
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alexpigment
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Post subject: Re: New player acquisitions, repairs - advice on DVD recorde Posted: 26 Apr 2019, 02:29 |
Genuinely interested |
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Joined: 24 Mar 2019, 06:31 Posts: 53 Location: United States Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 0 time
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rein-o wrote: alexpigment wrote: I know I'm not the only one capturing laserdiscs for posterity.
Well then, you should ask them what they are using. Put yourself in my shoes. I'm asking a question in a subforum that's described as "Scalers, Filters, Video Processors, and Displays" and asking a question about a DVD recorder as a comb filter. There's a *sticky* that's 14 pages long in this subforum about using DVD recorders for this exact purpose, which I read through pretty thoroughly. You tell me you don't use a DVD recorder as a passthrough and that I should just watch the laserdiscs. Given that, do I assume you're just busting my balls, or should I actually be taking you seriously?
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alexpigment
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Post subject: Re: New player acquisitions, repairs - advice on DVD recorde Posted: 26 Apr 2019, 03:44 |
Genuinely interested |
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Joined: 24 Mar 2019, 06:31 Posts: 53 Location: United States Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 0 time
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substance wrote: You can do anything you want with your LDs. Only your business. Back to original topic, you can try late jvc dvhs decks. Jvc hm dh30000u are fairly reasonably priced nowadays. You can feed composite and connect it’s firewire output to your computer. I had the 40000u, the comb filter was on par with the one in cld-99 or better. You know who has one of these obscure beasts in his goodwill finds closet? ME! I don't have a native firewire port on my PC, but I have a Sound Blaster audio card that has one, so I guess I could install that. Hopefully a project for tomorrow or this weekend. Thanks for the tip! Out of curiosity, does the video get encoded before being sent firewire, or is it a direct stream of data?
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alexpigment
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Post subject: Re: New player acquisitions, repairs - advice on DVD recorde Posted: 26 Apr 2019, 03:58 |
Genuinely interested |
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Joined: 24 Mar 2019, 06:31 Posts: 53 Location: United States Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 0 time
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rein-o wrote: Sort of both. I am busting as the resident copy police. Yes, yes, yes I understand all the rights you have to copy stuff that you own etc. etc.
Got it - makes more sense now As for the rabbit hole of money and time for minimal payoff, I'm well aware that I'm headed there - I just want to make sure I'm doing it right as soon as possible, so I don't keep redoing the captures (for minimal gains in improvement). I also - like you - don't see the benefit of using scalers since scaling algorithms and hardware get better and better over the years inside computers, so it's easier to just stay in 480i. Nvidia does a great job at deinterlacing and scaling via DXVA2. Right now for me it's all about having a good source and making sure the composite signal gets handled as well as possible. I didn't realize how non-trivial that last part was until recently. I had taken it for granted that all of my VCRs were sending out S-Video signals. And as for the prospect of some of these things being released on DVD in the future, I welcome it. My wallet is ready. The market just doesn't seem to be with me on this.
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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: New player acquisitions, repairs - advice on DVD recorde Posted: 27 Apr 2019, 02:01 |
Jedi Knight |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 6010 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1307 times Been thanked: 1118 times
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I have a 2009 JVC DR-MV150B combo DVD/VCR thing. In my option it’s absolutely amazing but I don’t do a lot of capturing or even watching LD on flat panels so I don’t know a lot or have strong opinions on any of it. I usually just watch movies on my Sony XBR 960 since I rarely copy things I own. I will %100 enjoy getting out an LD just to watch a four minute video. It’s not anything like a hassle.* These captures were made with the device, simply playing a CLD-99 straight into it then dropping the resultant VOB file into YouTube: https://youtu.be/6oK6X5uikyIhttps://youtu.be/8b5vec5hZbQhttps://youtu.be/fU1JWHDPc0ohttps://youtu.be/q5jOMLbyozgIs that massively better or worse than your results? The player outputs HDMI at 480p so I was thinking about capturing that but then I’d have to tie my computer to it for hours so I haven’t actually done it. * I will however complain about menus and loading times on BR/DVD all day and night.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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alexpigment
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Post subject: Re: New player acquisitions, repairs - advice on DVD recorde Posted: 27 Apr 2019, 05:13 |
Genuinely interested |
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Joined: 24 Mar 2019, 06:31 Posts: 53 Location: United States Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 0 time
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happycube wrote: It's a lot more likely the music videos will be officially released on YouTube than a BluRay these days. And DVD's of music videos are a bit hit or miss, sometimes they're worse than the YouTube postings!
I'm pretty sure the firewire output is a different encoding, but it shouldn't be very different from MPEG-2 output. Yeah, that's a big annoyance for me. When YouTube is the only choice to watch a music video, the bar is set very low. They really just do not care about quality, period. And I don't see enough people complaining about it. The general public has gotten so used to subpar quality in the digital era. Why is is acceptable to see large macroblocks everywhere? As for music video DVD releases, I own hundreds. There are some duds, but 99% are much better than YouTube, and the difference is not at all subtle.
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alexpigment
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Post subject: Re: New player acquisitions, repairs - advice on DVD recorde Posted: 27 Apr 2019, 05:32 |
Genuinely interested |
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Joined: 24 Mar 2019, 06:31 Posts: 53 Location: United States Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 0 time
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To illustrate this - I'll attach screenshots of a video with a scene that was shot on old film and has a lot of (intentional) grain. DVD first, Youtube second. Unfortunately, PNG is too big for forum attachments, so there is some JPEG compression that will minimize a bit of the stark difference, but still, night and day.
Last edited by alexpigment on 27 Apr 2019, 05:34, edited 2 times in total.
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