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 Post subject: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 17:26 
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Need help on having subtitles when playing Disks that are encoded with same. Using Samsung tv and subtitles are on. Ok on regular tv and dvds (oppo). Can’t figure out from instruction manual how to set player for subtitles (there is a button on the remote) but nothing happens. Would appreciate any help.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 17:42 
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Very confusing sorry.
Are you playing DVD or LD.
LD would have CC Closed Captions and some new TVs can't read them, or so I've read,

DVD would have the subtitles and you would need the original remote to access them just like any DVD player.
I don't believe there is a button to access them on the front of the player just remote.

Hope this helps.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 21:03 
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Thanks for the insight. Talking about laser disks and you may be correct in saying newer TVs can’t read them. Thought might be something in the laser disk menu that might help.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 21:17 
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You may need a stand alone CC decoder, I was looking into getting one, they are cheap for 20 or so on ebay.
There is a topic on here talking about them.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 04:38 
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Most TV’s should be able to read the CC but only on the antenna and composite / s-video connections.

What brand of TV do you have?
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 18:07 
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actual subtitles will always work. But if you're trying to read the CC from either a DVD or LD and are passing the signal through something that upscales and sends the signal to the TV through HDMI (like I do), the VBI data is stripped out. You'll notice there are NO Blu-ray discs that have "Closed Captions" and most studios have stopped using them on DVD's too (switching to SDH subtitles instead)
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2019, 23:28 
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Thanks to all who replied. Running hdmi signals through a Samsung tv so assume the subtitles on the laser disks are being stripped.not sure how cc decoder would work but will look into it. May just have to live with it.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2019, 00:03 
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lucky88 wrote:
Thanks to all who replied. Running hdmi signals through a Samsung tv so assume the subtitles on the laser disks are being stripped.not sure how cc decoder would work but will look into it. May just have to live with it.


I don't know how all this works but I think it would be more likely that the tv doesn't have them than they are being stripped by a device in the chain. Can you try composite into the tv directly or does it not have a composite input? That would be a surefire way to check.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2019, 22:50 
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Thanks again for the suggestions. Will look into some professional help.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2019, 23:03 
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lucky88 wrote:
Running hdmi signals through a Samsung tv so assume the subtitles on the laser disks are being stripped.not sure how cc decoder would work but will look into it.

Well I'm assuming you're using some sort of a video processor or just a convertor box that lets you hook your DVL-909 to your TV via HDMI, so you would place the CC decoder between that and the player.

Unless you're talking about LD+G subtitles, in which case you would need a different decoder but it's placement in the chain would remain the same.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2019, 20:30 
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Using a lumigen video processor between laser disk player and hdmi input into Yamaha receiver.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2019, 22:01 
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lucky88 wrote:
Using a lumigen video processor between laser disk player and hdmi input into Yamaha receiver.

Well then you would place the decoder between the player and the lumagen, but you just gotta make sure you get the right kind of a decoder; I notice a lot of the ones on ebay only have RF connectors for TV broadcasts, not composite.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2019, 19:54 
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Thanks takeshi666. Will keep that in mind after having someone taking a look at lumigen and pioneer menus. May be imbedded in menus. Thanks again. Lou
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2019, 17:49 
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Takeshi66. Experts ran different setups and concluded that hdmi is not the problem since getting subtitles from the DVD player but not ld player. You suggested a cc decoder from eBay. Would a telecaoption 4000 work? A number of them for sale. If not, what would you suggest? Thanks again for all your help.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2019, 18:03 
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Subtitles on the DVD are NOT the same as Closed Captions on LD. Subtitles on DVD are a data stream superimposed over the picture in player. This data is NOT encoded in the VBI of the video signal as is done with CC.

Using an external CC decoder which superimposes the captions (essentially making them open captions) in the video signal will pass through HDMI.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2019, 19:08 
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blam1 wrote:
Subtitles on the DVD are NOT the same as Closed Captions on LD. Subtitles on DVD are a data stream superimposed over the picture in player. This data is NOT encoded in the VBI of the video signal as is done with CC.


Not entirely true.
All of my early (1998-2000) US DVD's had CC signal in addition to the standard DVD subtitles.
Don't know if it's still the case, don't own any DVD anymore.

Edit: I found an example with the cover of Dogma on US DVD, see the CC logo squared in Red ?
Image

I remember now the big difference:

- CC on DVD were like CC on LD, I used the same CC Decoder to display them, and it was always SDH English subtitles.
- Subtitles on early DVD were simple subtitles, not SDH subtitles, and when english ist not your first language, you have to get the SDH.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2019, 22:23 
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There are indeed CC encoded onto some DVDs. The Endless Summer is one of them. Some DVD recorders can also encode the CC signal when recording off a Laserdisc player for instance, like the late Pioneer DVR LX70D or such.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2019, 23:56 
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Recording the CC was the default until a bunch of digital stuff moved the goal posts and broke it. If you dub TV or LD onto VHS or Beta it will also carry the CCs.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2019, 01:11 
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lucky88 wrote:
Takeshi66. Experts ran different setups and concluded that hdmi is not the problem since getting subtitles from the DVD player but not ld player. You suggested a cc decoder from eBay. Would a telecaoption 4000 work? A number of them for sale. If not, what would you suggest? Thanks again for all your help.

Unfortunately I have no experience with these decoders, but looking at that particular model I see it also only has RF connectors rather than RCA ones, except for "audio out", I wonder what that does? Text to speech for the blind? Anyway, I'd recommend any model that has composite in and out. I actually looked through google and turns out we had another thread about this sort of thing!

Help with choice of closed caption decoder

Looks like that HQ-2000 thing is what you're looking for, but the TV Guardian 101 will serve you just the same as long as you don't need to move the captions around.

But again, what blam1 said. Closed captions are not the same thing as DVD subtitles.
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 Post subject: Re: Subtitles on dvl-909
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2019, 02:33 
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The main difference being that the player doesn’t generate CCs or even see that they are there so you’ll never find any settings for them. It’s always your TV or a box that generates them.
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