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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 03:56 
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I mean like system updates that would take an hour or two to download due to the combination of them being huge and Sony’s servers being slow. All of these updates are done to prevent piracy so I don’t appreciate having to cancel my evening plans because the PS3 refuses to play a movie without being updated with the update takes longer than the running time of the movie. I mean like when the power goes out when the thing is on and it gets pissed off and runs some atomic level disk scan for TWELVE HOURS.

Even the remote. You have to make sure you never ever touch it accidentally anywhere in the house. If you bump any button on it the system powers up and there is no power button. You have wait for full boot and shutdown or risk the scan from hell again. When dusting the room you have to *carefully* handle the PS3 remote whereas all the others have an actual power button and only work when pointed at the machine. The dumb Bluetooth thing made universal remotes impossible for a few years too.

It’s a MkII. I don’t know what the gamer term is for it. I’m sure I’ve forgotten other things since these days it’s pretty much for movies. It’s generally pretty good at that.

When the PS4 was being revealed it seemed like many of its features were meant to appease people who were sick of the BS, like this ability to play part of a game while the rest downloads. Making the owner less of a sysadmin. I was somewhat interested in a PS4 but then I heard how the 4K BR is somehow junk so I just stopped paying attention to video games/became a Nintendo fan. Nintendo understands that non-dorks step away from the consoles for 22.5 hours a day or more so they have to have fun when it’s fun time.

Can you imagine telling a kid, “Great report card, you can play Sonic for two hours tonight!” and he ends up watching progress bars for the entire time? It’s extremely out of touch to expect this kind of patience from people. Sony’s target customers have never had sex and either has Ken Kutaragi so this would never have occurred to them, to think of kids.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 05:18 
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If you're just using it as a DVD/BD player, leave the PS3 disconnected from your network unless you encounter an issue trying to play a disc.

Don't have any games or other crap on it, it won't take 12 hours to check/rebuild the HDD if there's virtually nothing on it (even if the drive is 500GB). The message might say it could take hours but it won't.


Edit:
There's no such thing as a PS4 with a 4k BD drive, they all have just a BD drive including the Pro. Xbox One X and the S models with an optical drive are 4k drives.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 06:10 
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signofzeta wrote:
It’s a MkII. I don’t know what the gamer term is for it. I’m sure I’ve forgotten other things since these days it’s pretty much for movies. It’s generally pretty good at that.

I don't know what that refers to. Searching predictably only brought up Mortal Kombat. If there's no silver band across the face and it's not a top loader it's the slim, generally regarded as the most reliable subset, although none of your issues sound model related.

For movies deadlegion hit it on the mark, disable the internet connection. Personally I and the people I know who use PS3s for BD have never needed to update it to run a BD, even those who haven't gamed and therefore haven't updated the console in ages. Maybe you use BD Live. Just anecdotal experience, don't mistake this for me calling you a liar, a fool, a troll etc.

The remote touchiness is something else. PS3 controllers only turn on by touching the PS button, which is avoidable. The actual media remote requires a double press of the PS button to turn on. This seems like complaining the LD player drawer opens whenever you stop the movie.

For system restore you can again follow deadlegion's advice, or if you think you'll use it for gaming again upgrade your HDD. 7200 rpm HDDs run faster and will always restore (in my experience) in under half an hour even when loaded up to 1 TB, but if I simply pull the plug because of PSN being crap it's usually more like six minutes. I genuinely hated the PS3 while it ran on the stock HDD.

I hate all the downloading too, but again just disable the internet. And PS3 games outside of COD type s**t never needed many updates.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 08:43 
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MkII means Mark 2 which means the 2nd version. As in Webley Mk VI (Indiana Jones’s pistol) VW Golf MkI (mentioned in another thread today by me and another users) Lincoln Mark VIII (brand name) or Gundam MkII.

I’m %99.9 sure that every button the on the remote powers up the system. This is the official Sony product labeled “BD Remote Control”. I just now tested it with “angle”, Yellow, “8” and “circle”. I didn’t check the other 45 buttons but I see no reason to think they don’t do the same thing. One press. They wanted that machine running. Nothing could be more obvious. All you have to do is accidentally turn the remote upside down, “beep” [fan and hard drive noises]. It’s like a b**by trap. If you *really* don’t believe me then I guess I can allow the PS3 to waste even more of my life and I can make a movie of it.

LD players will only power up from the remote with Power. The units themselves may power up with Eject or A/B, there is no analogy whatsoever. There aren’t 45 buttons in my home theater that will power up my LD player, none will through a wall, and even if they did they don’t consume anything like PlayStation levels of power when they are accidentally switched on, they power down almost instantly (“power” will wait in cue, why won’t it with the infinatly more advanced PS3?) and since they have no storage they cannot be corrupted by yanking the cord early. I’m not sure what you mean by “the LD player opens the drawer when you stop the movie.” None of mine do that...maybe one of my mid 80s industrials does? I can’t remember. None of my home decks ever did.

My complaint about disc scan time is perhaps different from yours if your scan produced no errors. Correcting errors takes long and I have absolutely been subjected to this in the past, it really does take hours. Like twice as long as a PC with the same job. I’m not going by the estimate, I’m saying the estimate is conservative. Again, making the user of a console a sysadmin, expecting him to upgrade HD RPM, to know when to connect and disconnect the system from the internet is crap.

Nobody has ever “used” BD Live, it’s stupid. However if the movie I put in has this feature I have no control over that and regardless the standalone player I have plays them every time so either way the PS3 is a massive time waster, king of all console history as far as I know. The most recent movie to make me update software was Gundam Narrative which was released just last year, it probably has BD Live features, I don’t remember. Either way, they are still putting fools like me through these pointless rituals even though PS3 games aren’t being made on any significant scale whatsoever at this point.


Last edited by signofzeta on 14 Feb 2020, 08:58, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 08:46 
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Vindication - I always knew Poo Ray sucked :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 12:22 
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forper wrote:
Vindication - I always knew Poo Ray sucked :cool:

HD-DVD got a bum rep, but at-least Blu-Rays aren't rotting after 10 years.


90% of my Blu-Rays are from when Blockbuster closed, practically cleaned my local store out.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 16:35 
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%90 of my Blu-ray’s were purchased grocery store back end cap bargain bins for a few bucks.

Then there are the Criterions and imports which cost nearly as much as LDs did.

Both usually have quality I’d describe as “good enough for a lifetime” so personally I quite like BR. I was sure pissed when whatever backroom BS went on that destroyed HD-DVD but now that it seems to be the most rot prone format in history it makes me wonder how crappy that would have been to go through.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 19:02 
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Even if he isn't a tech guy, he should known enough to figure out the name comes from the color of the laser and it's not like he's playing a character in this video. Whether it's a good name is another issue - Laserdisc/Laservision sounds alot cooler than "Red Ray" (after the HeNe lasers of LD's debut), maybe CrimsonRay :lol: ?
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 19:16 
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signofzeta wrote:
%90 of my Blu-ray’s were purchased grocery store back end cap bargain bins for a few bucks.

I don't even remember the last title like that was that I bought. I buy almost nothing but indie label distributor releases these days; Arrow, Criterion, etc. with the occasional big studio release of an old classic.

Might be the old Warner Bros release of Stallone's Cobra, and that was years ago.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 20:15 
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He says he is a vhs guy. He says hd dvd and Blu-ray went to format war.then he says he doesn’t remember ever a format war before. This guy never heard of vhs vs. beta?

He says sony owns blu ray, no one owns vhs? Again perhaps never heard of jvc?

So much for a vhs guy.

He has a point on the simpler menus. Perhaps no one cares is the answer. Bookmarks, again no one cares. Encryption updates? No one wants their content stolen, illegally copied/multiplied. Why don’t you leave your house door unlocked at all times? If your lock was picked before, you would surely replace it, right? They break whatever copy protection they implement in time so yes it makes sense to swap encryption keys time to time.

Endless previews partially pays for your bluray so you can buy it cheap. If they didn’t have previews then they would need to market upcoming releases more aggressively which would cost them more money and that money needs to come from somewhere. It is also progress aka the way the things are now. If vhs or ld were being produced now they would also have previews.

He obviously isn’t a cinephile. His room is filled with junk films. He isn’t a videophile either. Otherwise he would never be okay with watching any content on any less than the best presentation possible (also better equipment. Ps3 ? Really). He isn’t a collector either. How could he say he prefers streaming?
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 20:55 
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“Progress” and “the way things are now” are not the same thing at all. That’s dangerous thinking, basically telling people to take whatever crap comes along because there’s no alternative. Defeatist in the extreme. That’s a horrible attitude to have.

LDs would not have previews if they still were being made for the same reason they never had them them back in the day. They don’t want to press another disc just for ads and you’d for sure have to do on most LDs you wanted to add 15 minutes of ads to (for things that aren’t even on the market a year after the disc was pressed.). Making them difficult or impossible to skip is the main issue. This is just customer abuse, frankly, deactivating the Menu and Skip buttons because you want to chain people to your advert.

And updating keys is pointless. Everything is Bit Torrent-able somewhere. The encryption doesn’t stop pirates at all. I know because I just watched Cats (2019) and it isn’t even on disc yet. All this BS does is waste the time of honest paying customers since it is only experienced by them. Pirated release are ad-free and open. Absolutely nothing the studio does has any affect on them. You can jack it via file sharing or by buying out of some guys trunk in the Duane Reade parking lot...before release even. The whole thing is circular scam. How many kilowatts of energy is wasted updating PlayStations with no affect whatsoever on piracy and how long are they going to keep blowing $$$ on tactics that don’t work just because they don’t have the slightest idea what to do differently? I first saw Star Wars Episode III via illegal download, two decades ago! Take care of customers who ARE paying and stop torturing them because OTHER PEOPLE aren’t. It’s totally illogical.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 21:27 
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They should just do away with region codes too. Which they have, but only for UHD.

Warner Bros had the right idea. Even back in the DVD days their region 1 discs were usually coded for regions 1-4.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 22:23 
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Yeah, needs to be more focus on the actual product to make people pay for it, not on restrictions. Positivity over negativity.

Maybe just buying decent stuff and being willing to pay a fair price will come back into fashion?
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 22:48 
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takeshi666 wrote:
Warner Bros had the right idea.


A sentence rarely uttered.

signofzeta wrote:
“Progress” and “the way things are now” are not the same thing at all. That’s dangerous thinking, basically telling people to take whatever crap comes along because there’s no alternative. Defeatist in the extreme. That’s a horrible attitude to have.

LDs would not have previews if they still were being made for the same reason they never had them them back in the day. They don’t want to press another disc just for ads and you’d for sure have to do on most LDs you wanted to add 15 minutes of ads to (for things that aren’t even on the market a year after the disc was pressed.). Making them difficult or impossible to skip is the main issue. This is just customer abuse, frankly, deactivating the Menu and Skip buttons because you want to chain people to your advert.

And updating keys is pointless. Everything is Bit Torrent-able somewhere. The encryption doesn’t stop pirates at all. I know because I just watched Cats (2019) and it isn’t even on disc yet. All this BS does is waste the time of honest paying customers since it is only experienced by them. Pirated release are ad-free and open. Absolutely nothing the studio does has any affect on them. You can jack it via file sharing or by buying out of some guys trunk in the Duane Reade parking lot...before release even. The whole thing is circular scam. How many kilowatts of energy is wasted updating PlayStations with no affect whatsoever on piracy and how long are they going to keep blowing $$$ on tactics that don’t work just because they don’t have the slightest idea what to do differently? I first saw Star Wars Episode III via illegal download, two decades ago! Take care of customers who ARE paying and stop torturing them because OTHER PEOPLE aren’t. It’s totally illogical.


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

forper wrote:
Yeah, needs to be more focus on the actual product to make people pay for it, not on restrictions. Positivity over negativity.

Maybe just buying decent stuff and being willing to pay a fair price will come back into fashion?


Indeed. It never went out of fashion for me. I've seen people complain about the prices of a lot of BDs and other things I buy. Well you get what you pay for, you really do.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 23:02 
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Think AVGN has been playing 'Beat Em' and Eat Em' too much lately.. that's an old Atari game he reviewed years ago by the way :oops: :lol: :crazy:
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 23:13 
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signofzeta wrote:
MkII means Mark 2 which means the 2nd version. As in Webley Mk VI (Indiana Jones’s pistol) VW Golf MkI (mentioned in another thread today by me and another users) Lincoln Mark VIII (brand name) or Gundam MkII.

Yes Mark II, but there were second marks of every model--the 40GB was the second release of the first model, the 160 GB the second of the second. So the slim. I don't think it matters.

The remote: I tested this after posting before. You're correct. My PS button seems worn out, every other button is only one press. Maybe all my buttons are less sensitive as it's never been accidentally turned on-- quality fluctuations etc.

LD players will only power up from the remote with Power. The units themselves may power up with Eject or A/B, there is no analogy whatsoever. I’m not sure what you mean by “the LD player opens the drawer when you stop the movie.”
I believed the PS3 remote needed a double press, like pressing "stop" twice on a LD player to open the drawer.

My complaint about disc scan time is perhaps different from yours if your scan produced no errors. Correcting errors takes long and I have absolutely been subjected to this in the past, it really does take hours. Like twice as long as a PC with the same job. I’m not going by the estimate, I’m saying the estimate is conservative. Again, making the user of a console a sysadmin, expecting him to upgrade HD RPM, to know when to connect and disconnect the system from the internet is crap.
You need to run defrag at some point. It's probably the same error recurring.
This isn't really sysadmin stuff, and the higher RPM will (should) come with buying a bigger HDD. Granted that should have been there to begin with, in the same way LD players should have come with metal gears and cogs and everyting else that breaks in transit instead of plastic. Manufacturers feel they have to skimp somewhere.
The point being all this maintenance is on par with LD players'. The timeline is different but that comes with changing eras.
Forced internet updates are generated by the game and movie makers.

Nobody has ever “used” BD Live, it’s stupid. However if the movie I put in has this feature I have no control over that and regardless the standalone player I have plays them every time so either way the PS3 is a massive time waster, king of all console history as far as I know.
It very well may be the king. But you can spare yourself that by only enabling the internet when you're going to play online, shop PSN, use a streaming service etc. Switching the network on and off takes less time than manually flipping a LD.
The reason I keep bringing up LD is that if a member here were lambasting a LD player after your style you'd label him a troll. You already own the PS3 hardware, might as well try to get the most out of it. (And yes it can be frustrating).
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2020, 20:43 
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Have been fan of AVGN for a long time, but here he lost me completely. Choosing streaming over blu ray, that is a sin punishable by taking away all his devices that play physical media and letting him wait for years before some nice obscure stuff will arrive on a streaming service. :D
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 17 Feb 2020, 01:48 
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therussian wrote:
Have been fan of AVGN for a long time, but here he lost me completely. Choosing streaming over blu ray, that is a sin punishable by taking away all his devices that play physical media and letting him wait for years before some nice obscure stuff will arrive on a streaming service. :D


Plenty of people prefer streaming over everything now, it's sad. They usually don't want to clutter their house with "junk" and claim it's "convenient" right up until they can't find stuff on all the services they subscribe to. I can understand it's nice to get access to stuff before release on BD or whatever though, but that really comes down to a little patience. Modern stuff doesn't take years to get home releases like the old days.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 17 Feb 2020, 14:51 
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I have a 1st gen PS3 (one of the 60GB models, but I replaced the original HDD with a 256GB SSD.) I mainly use it to play PS2 games (like Samurai Shodown Anthology, Fatal Fury Collections--mainly a lot of emulated classic stuff)since it's more reliable than a PS2 these days and it's the blu-ray and media player for my bedroom (Netflix, Hulu Plus, etc.)

Having the SSD definitely helps with any updates that get downloaded as they load a LOT faster.
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 Post subject: Re: Blu Ray sucks ! (according to AVGN)
PostPosted: 17 Feb 2020, 22:42 
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Personally I don't even bother with internet connection for my Oppo. I get all of my FWs through manual download and put them on USB stick whenever there's any, though I'm usually always like at least six months later than everyone else to actually update. I will say that despite not being a fan of using the PS3 as a primary player, you cannot deny that it served a major purpose for the Blu-Ray format and was indeed a rare bird. Not to mention the fact that the HDMI chip was in fact programable, meaning HDMI 1.4 support could be added through software updates many years later and making it compatbile with 3D BDs.

As for the format itself I will agree on that it can be impractical for sure at times, but the high quality video and audio presentation easily makes up for it. It becomes more and more evident however that distribution companies pay less attention for the format though, which is a bummer for me since I'm a complete sucker for physical media. I have nothing against streaming but for me most of the fun is in collecting all of these discs. It will never be as special for me as Laserdisc ever was of course. Whenever I, nowadays rarely, go through my LDs I feel that something really nice was lost when entering the 21th century.
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