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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2020, 23:34 
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signofzeta wrote:
I don’t remember Star Blazers airing in my area and that’s the main one I missed from my conscious years. I remember Dragon Warrior, Tranzor Z, Voltron, Robotech, Superbook/Flying House, Battle of the Planets, G Force (re-dub of Battle of the Planets), Little Koala and Friends (aka: Koala Koki, I’m interested in anything related to this show and the show itself, PM me), Fairy Tale Theater, Unico 2, Warriors of the Wind, Sherlock Hound, and then on VHS there was a ton more. There was actually a crapload of anime on TV and in rental places even in like 1984. The “anime invasion” of the 90s was mostly just selling the stuff and not deliberately obscuring its origin for the first time.

Starblazers was before my time, I vaguely remember some of my sister's friends talking about it comparatively when discussing Robotech, which was airing at the time. Voltron I watched some of, Battle of the Planets I recall not being interested in as a little kid, but it definitely aired locally too.

Also funny you should mention Superbook. Only just got this guide to the home video releases that I began writing back in the spring of this year posted online not even two weeks ago. There were no LaserDiscs, least not in North America, just as a heads up.:
http://www.tweeg.psoarchive.com/collect/anime_superbook.pdf

I do remember Sunday morning cartoons being a thing. Not sure which of the big VHF networks it was that was doing them here, but I do remember only one did cartoon and only from 7am - 9am, and it was a Hanna-Barbera 2-hour block that included shows such as "The Snorkels". In the 1990's two different UHF stations did Sunday morning cartoons, and one of those stations was simply one hour of anime, initially it was Dragon Ball, and I think it was around 1994 or 1995 they dropped Dragon Ball and from that point on 7:30am there was only one "cartoon" show on for just a half-hour on Sunday morning, and that was Sailor Moon. But even back then in those days you had to pay close attention to the credits, if the station bothered airing the credits at all, to get a clue as to the country of origin for the cartoon you were watching.

Until Pokemon came out, all the by then big name stations still doing cartoons had mostly stayed away from anime as being a part of a their national network programming. Last anime before then any of them tackled trying to air was Fox showing Escaflowne as part of the Fox Kids Saturday morning programming, which they didn't even make it half way through before having to pull it due to concerned parental-type groups petitioning they cease airing it. Pokemon was initially thrown into the "why bother" 2:30p.m. weekday afternoon timeslot, that being the least desired afternoon time slot as grade schools don't let students out for the day until 2:30p.m, so wasn't like there were a lot of kids already home waiting to watch the show the moment it came on. But we all know how Pokemon went over. That went from being syndicated to a flagship showing for the Kids WB weekday afternoon and Saturday Morning national programming blocks.
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2020, 06:08 
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Star Blazers, Ulysses 31 and Mysterious Cities of Gold were all broadcast free-to-air when I was a kid. I think those were all North American dubs but besides Star Blazers it has been ages since I have seen them.

The only Japanese show (not anime though) I remember watching that didn't have an American dub was Monkey (I think the Japanese title is Saiyūki). The dub is British, I'm sure plenty of people in the UK, Australia and New Zealand have seen this dubbed version although originally not all the episodes were dubbed and broadcast.

Think that just got a UK/AU BD release, not sure if it's region locked. No idea about NA release (I haven't looked).
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2020, 08:27 
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I remember reading in Manga Mania, Anime UK (later Anime FX) and so on about all the shows airing on USA telly like Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon etc.

I was so jealous! All we got in UK and Ireland was the Manga Video drip feed until Kiseki, AD Vision and friends spoon fed us new content. I still remember importing Bubblegum Crisis and Urusei Yatsua tapes and recording whatever aired at silly hours of the morning on terrestrial networks.

I still haven't seen stuff like Astro Boy, Marine Boy, Kimba and so on. One day!'
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2020, 17:10 
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I used to read Anime UK. It was surprising to learn that Manga video actually sucked really bad in comparison over there. Basically they just wanted to sell dubbed Overfiend and the like but in the US, where they emerged a few years later, we mostly associated them with major stuff like Macross Plus and Ghost in the Shell, never cut, and with a dub on offer and even (terrible) LD versions.

By the time Sailor Moon and Dragonball were on US TV the really mysterious years were over. Rec.arts.anime was around by then. The really exciting stuff was the pre “anime” days, when all the titles were changed, the credits white washed, and the only TV stations that would play the stuff wouldn’t bother to list it in TV guide because it was 5:30am or whatever. That was when you’d wake up stupid early on purpose every time the schedule changed just to see if anything cool had showed up. The last show I found like that was was probably Dragon Warrior which was on UHF stations in 1992 maybe. Toriyama sued for them not crediting him, good for him, which didn’t help it getting renewed.
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2020, 06:44 
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teddanson wrote:
I still haven't seen stuff like Astro Boy, Marine Boy, Kimba and so on. One day!'


Apparently I was mad about Kimba when I was small (younger than 5) but I don't remember tbh :lol:
Astro Boy I do remember watching when I was in primary school, the American dub was rerun for years. I guess it was that and Star Blazers that was rerun the most back then, but Monkey was way more popular than any of the anime.
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2020, 12:19 
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deadlegion wrote:
I guess it was that and Star Blazers that was rerun the most back then, but Monkey was way more popular than any of the anime.


Monkey.... loved that show back in the day.

Born from an egg on a mountain top
The punkiest monkey that ever popped
He knew every magic trick under the sun
To tease the Gods
And everyone and have some fun
Monkey magic, monkey magic (x4)

What a cocky saucy monkey this one is
All the Gods were angered
And they punished him
Until he was saved by a kindly priest
And that was the start
Of their pilgrimage west
Monkey magic, monkey magic (x4)

With a little bit of monkey magic
There'll be fireworks tonight
With a little bit of monkey magic
Every thing will be all right
Born from an egg on a mountain top
The punkiest monkey that ever popped
He knew every magic trick under the sun
To tease the Gods
And everyone and have some fun
Monkey magic, monkey magic (x repeat)


:thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 12:29 
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takeshi666 wrote:
teddanson wrote:
Julien may well recognise this show. This was one of my all-time favourites as a young pup. The way it dealt with death too, no holds barred.

The Blu Ray is OOP now I think, so it's surprising Jeff has any stock. It's between €50 and €250 in most outlets now. Jeff has it for a not too shabby €29.99.

Bought it today. All 26 episodes, remastered in glorious HD and with both the original French audio and also the English dubbed audio both in DTS-HD 2.0.

Le potage sportif!! :D

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https://www.amazon.fr/%C3%A9tait-une-fo ... 071NMMKN4/

Because of how unreliable amazon listings tend to be when it comes to specs (and I really want it with subtitles!), I still haven't bought any of these, and I especially want the second series because it's the only one that was never fully translated into Finnish but the little I did see may have played an early role in my love for science fiction.


Jeff must be using some sort of ion propelled drone or something because a parcel arrived today from France housing a lovely little Blu Ray set of Once Upon A Time...Life. :mrgreen:

POUR ALLEZ A LA GARE SIL VOUS PLAIT!!? INDEEDY!

Something on the back caught my eye (it's okay, it didn't hurt, I put it back in the socket) and blew my mind.

If I read the package specs correctly these episodes are presented in 16:9. That would be a world first no? I don't recall seeing ANY of the Once Upon A Time... series' in widescreen. It was all 4:3 fullscreen back in the day.

Hopefully this truly is a proper remaster. Were the shows recorded to film stock? I'll post some screenshots later tonight if I get a chance.

Specs on the box read as follows:

Zones A, B, C
English and French audio tracks
Subtitles are French only
16/9 BD50 Colour (3 discs)
Stereo (I read somewhere it's DTS HD MA 2.0?)
Runtime 11hrs 51 mins

It says the restoration work was done by Mikros. I hope it's in SECAM too, just to be extra French. :D

I hold hope that this is gonna be brilliant. Fingers crossed. Le boulangerie c'est prés de ici indeed! :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 12:34 
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Just by way of an update, I had a little look in to 'Mikros'.

These lads look like the real deal and know their stuff. Have a look at this:

https://www.in70mm.com/news/2004/playtime/uk/index.htm

Official Mikros Image site is here:

https://www.mikrosimage.com/
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 20:07 
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OK. I gave the discs a quick spin and took a few snaps of the telly with my phone so sorry for the poor quality.

I left the stats on screen for the eggheads among you to enjoy!

As for the discs? HOLY MOTHER OF GOD. HOW DID THEY ACHEIVE THIS? THE QUALITY IS ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING.

There is a documentary about the restoration process on disc 3. I've not watched it yet but I am hazarding a guess here they used original negatives. It absolutely must have been shot on 35mm. You simply would not get this quality from an old master tape.

I'm genuinely gobsmacked by the results here. An AMAZING acheivement. This is the best these cartoons have ever and will likely ever look bar perhaps a 4K HDR process. Bitrate seems to head north of 60Mbps too!

Yes, these discs are expensive, but support the project. I'll be buying the rest. The work on show here is just astonishing. Le poulet avec pomme frites c'est trés chaude is all i can say! Bravo!

These lads should have done the 4K Akira.

Here's some snaps of my telly for you. Trust me, they do it absolutely no justice. Sorry all. :(

P.s the audio is indeed DTS HD Master 2.0 throughout. Amazing!

EDIT: Watched the restoration.documentary, it's not very long. It's 100% from original negatives. Looks like it was shot on 16mm which may explain the lack of 4K? Judging by the state the negatives were in makes this restoration even more superb. Lots of red tones from vinegar syndrome, completely torn apart sections, damage, dirt, the full works. That Mikros crowd done an amazing job.

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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 21:23 
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Animation shot to 16mm indicates a very low budget, yet the animation itself is above average. Europe!

Is it possible the 16mm is a down conversion from (a lost) 35mm?
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 22:52 
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I wish I knew, the bonus features have no English subtitles, it's all in French. My schoolboy French is nowhere near good enough to translate it sorry.

From what I could see they had an almighty task to restore it. The negatives looked like they were fit for the bin and riddled with damage and decay, which is why I find the end results so fantastic.

You can see when the reels were scanned they used a wet wash on the scan process to clean it and prevent further damage. It's even more amazing to me it was originally made on film and in a totally different AR.

Hopefully folks will get to see the great work done here for themselves some day. As for me, I will definitely get the rest of the titles at some stage. :thumbup:

EDIT

There is a video here taken from the Blu Ray that explains how they remastered the audio. It is entirely in French though, maybe any French speakers reading this could help?

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5b640s

EDIT 2

Interesting fact of the day! The theme song J'aime La Vie by Sandra Kim won the Eurovision Song Contest in 1986!

She was 13 at the time and lied about her age, making her the youngest winner ever and likely to be unchallenged. It is also the only time Belgium has ever won the competition. Take that to your next quiz night!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%27aime_la_vie


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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 23:55 
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All animation is shot to film. All the stuff from this period anyway. Rendering to video wasn’t possible until the mid 90s for most studios, although Disney had CAPS for part of Little Mermaid. Ghibli was film-only until On Your Mark.

Cheap animation (12fps) and film make a great combo for restoration. Every frame was shot twice. Anime is 8fps so even cheaper but even more redundant. This really helps computer systems build a better average frame.
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 02:40 
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signofzeta wrote:
Animation shot to 16mm indicates a very low budget, yet the animation itself is above average. Europe!

Is it possible the 16mm is a down conversion from (a lost) 35mm?


I'm not sure about Europe in general, but yes I'm pretty sure some UK stuff had 16mm film "backup" made from 35mm or whatever and then the original was lost or destroyed.

Unlike the US, many parts of the world haven't had the time, money, space etc to archive a lot of stuff properly. Also, bad stuff happens like natural disasters and war.
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 03:10 
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Yeah, for sure. A large portion of Metropolis was rescued from reduction prints...and probably 1000 other silent movies.

If this series was ever shown in its completion in schools that may have also been a source of 16mm copies. When I was a grade schooler, around this time, most of the schools films were 16mm. We started to see VHS used more toward the end of 6th grade for me (1985). We for sure had TV programs on 16mm. The one that I’ll never forget, because they showed it every year and I still love it, is Paddle to the Sea from way up in Canookistan.

https://youtu.be/kLSsAFB9tGA

I saw the advantage of VHS but with the film and film strip projectors we could actually SEE the image. Back then 27” was a large TV and seeing that from the back of the class wasn’t always easy. Obvious the image quality of video blows compared to almost any film.
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 03:40 
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I'm not a big fan of reframing 1.33:1 content into 16x9 :/
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 04:10 
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takeshi666 wrote:
I'm not a big fan of reframing 1.33:1 content into 16x9 :/


Yeah, that’s total BS. I can’t imagine buying anything done that way except by accident.
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 08:43 
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signofzeta wrote:
Yeah, for sure. A large portion of Metropolis was rescued from reduction prints...and probably 1000 other silent movies.

If this series was ever shown in its completion in schools that may have also been a source of 16mm copies. When I was a grade schooler, around this time, most of the schools films were 16mm. We started to see VHS used more toward the end of 6th grade for me (1985). We for sure had TV programs on 16mm. The one that I’ll never forget, because they showed it every year and I still love it, is Paddle to the Sea from way up in Canookistan.

https://youtu.be/kLSsAFB9tGA

I saw the advantage of VHS but with the film and film strip projectors we could actually SEE the image. Back then 27” was a large TV and seeing that from the back of the class wasn’t always easy. Obvious the image quality of video blows compared to almost any film.


I don't recall the series ever being shown in 16mm at school. To quote Grandpa Simpson "In my day..." it was all Ferguson Videostar top loaders wheeled in on a trolley by the prefects.

I remember the show being screened on Channel 4 very early on Saturday mornings, usually around 6am, maybe 7am, after Transworld Sport. Space and Man were shown too in other years.

I thought for 1986 it would have been shot on video. Though your point makes complete sense that if it was low budget or studios that were not The Mouse had few resources then film stock would be far cheaper and more easily accessible.

I'd love to get a translation of the restoration feature as it does explain where the stock was sourced.
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 14:54 
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Shooting frame by frame to video really wasn’t possible for anyone of any budget except some kinds of computer animation until the 90s. The DVD era, pretty much. A single frame of 35mm film is like $0.08 back then, the only choice.
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 17:22 
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takeshi666 wrote:
I'm not a big fan of reframing 1.33:1 content into 16x9 :/


I think there is way too much of this going on, very sad.
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 Post subject: Re: That Sherlock Holmes thing Julien was on about...
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 19:02 
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Found some good information here. It seems the 16mm reels were original negatives. It was decided to go with these over the 4:3 broadcast masters which is what I think was done with Willy Fogg, Dogtanian etc.

https://www.thmmagazine.fr/il-etait-une ... 0p-et-169/

Above link is in French but run it through DeepL for more.

But wait! There's more!

Order now and we'll DOUBLE YOUR ORDER! JUST PAY SHIPPING AND...

Sorry about that. Back on topic. There's some interesting information about 16mm film here. It mentioned some productions 'hard matted' the film for 1.66.1 aspect ratio, which is what Mikros have presented Il Etait Une Fois...La Vie in. So the reel content was 1.66.1 then and not fiddled around with by Mikros during restoration? It's basically presented as Albert Barille intended?

We need a translator! :lol:

Hmm!

https://www.sprocketschool.org/wiki/16mm
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