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cplusplus
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Post subject: Re: RLV Discs Posted: 07 May 2020, 04:39 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18 Posts: 1520 Has thanked: 449 times Been thanked: 588 times
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admin wrote: Nice, at 2:06 they show the tape master for Foul Play (1978) [SF078-1329]Wow, nice catch. Also, I would do anything for one of those blue Laserdisc jackets.
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pokefraker
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Post subject: Re: RLV Discs Posted: 07 May 2020, 04:47 |
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Joined: 08 Aug 2019, 06:39 Posts: 344 Location: VT USA Has thanked: 305 times Been thanked: 172 times
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cplusplus wrote: What frame numbers do your discs end at?
What happens if you try to play the other side of the disc? I'll check tomorrow morning for ya, I was planning on digitizing the whole disc anyways so an example of the Blank signal is somewhere for people to reference.
_________________ You know, excuse me, this is, a damn fine cup of coffee.
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pokefraker
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Post subject: Re: RLV Discs Posted: 07 May 2020, 13:48 |
True fan |
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Joined: 08 Aug 2019, 06:39 Posts: 344 Location: VT USA Has thanked: 305 times Been thanked: 172 times
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Uh so I'm a moron. One of my RLV Discs actually has content on it, I will have it uploaded in the next 24 hours. I'm going to test the other one shortly, but apparently I'm a dolt and forgot to fast forward the entire LD (as the content doesn't start until around frame 8,000 or so). Also to answer your question, when I try to play the reverse side my player just gives me a "no disc" message and doesn't do anything. Disc ends at frame "52200" on the dot.Disc is Mono, first track being the actual audio, second being a terrible screeching sound.And the other one also has content, I don't know why the hell I didn't check past 8000 frames or so, I've been thinking both of these were blank since last year
_________________ You know, excuse me, this is, a damn fine cup of coffee.
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cplusplus
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Post subject: Re: RLV Discs Posted: 07 May 2020, 15:31 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18 Posts: 1520 Has thanked: 449 times Been thanked: 588 times
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I posted that because I believe if RLVs show video of any sort, they are not blank. Essentially, the special dye-containing layer either has a signal on it or it doesn't. So I'm glad you took another look! It might have been common to pad the start of the disc in an effort to reduce noise or when the customer wanted the disc to start at a specific frame. ( https://web.archive.org/web/19991104040 ... guide.html)
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pokefraker
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Post subject: Re: RLV Discs Posted: 07 May 2020, 15:39 |
True fan |
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Joined: 08 Aug 2019, 06:39 Posts: 344 Location: VT USA Has thanked: 305 times Been thanked: 172 times
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cplusplus wrote: I posted that because I believe if RLVs show video of any sort, they are not blank. Essentially, the special dye-containing layer either has a signal on it or it doesn't. So I'm glad you took another look! It might have been common to pad the start of the disc in an effort to reduce noise or when the customer wanted the disc to start at a specific frame. ( https://web.archive.org/web/19991104040 ... guide.html) Huh very interesting! Thank you so much for the tip! Both discs are now digitized, I'll be uploading them tonight hopefully. I have to go ahead and cut out the empty bits first but that shouldn't take too long.
_________________ You know, excuse me, this is, a damn fine cup of coffee.
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cplusplus
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Post subject: Re: RLV Discs Posted: 09 May 2020, 15:11 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18 Posts: 1520 Has thanked: 449 times Been thanked: 588 times
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Thanks. I was wondering on the recorded side based on https://www.instructables.com/id/how-to ... ser-discs/ - It looks like the LVDR 610A might have been able to write text into the disc. Also on a side note: in that Instructable, the author is polishing that RLV. These discs are hollow on the inside and should only be handled by the edges, so I wouldn't be surprised if he damaged it.
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pokefraker
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Post subject: Re: RLV Discs Posted: 09 May 2020, 15:58 |
True fan |
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Joined: 08 Aug 2019, 06:39 Posts: 344 Location: VT USA Has thanked: 305 times Been thanked: 172 times
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cplusplus wrote: Thanks. I was wondering on the recorded side based on https://www.instructables.com/id/how-to ... ser-discs/ - It looks like the LVDR 610A might have been able to write text into the disc. Also on a side note: in that Instructable, the author is polishing that RLV. These discs are hollow on the inside and should only be handled by the edges, so I wouldn't be surprised if he damaged it. Gotcha, yes there is something there but it is extremely hard to see. I will attempt to take a picture of it, but my camera is having a hard time with how shiny the disc is. Edit: Got it, it's got the name of the video etched into it, only on one spot the rest of the ring does not have any etching. The photo should show what I'm talking about, you may have to zoom in. This is on the disc that I've uploaded, that had the handwritten "old" on it. The newer one from 99' does not have any sort of etching.
_________________ You know, excuse me, this is, a damn fine cup of coffee.
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je280
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Post subject: Re: RLV Discs Posted: 10 May 2020, 09:28 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 13 Sep 2012, 23:14 Posts: 1199 Location: United Kingdom Has thanked: 265 times Been thanked: 259 times
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If it was not for you pokefraker I seriously doubt any of us on here with perhaps one or two exceptions would have ever seen these discs in action, if there are exceptions they have not come on here with the detail & actual footage you have so kindly provided. You have put quite a bit of time & effort into your input & please be sure it is genuinely appreciated - I am pretty sure not just be me. The service/dealership footage you are posting is so helpful also & again you are letting us view LDs that many of us would not get a chance to see. Thanks to you pokefraker. Cheers
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cplusplus
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Post subject: Re: RLV Discs Posted: 10 May 2020, 14:04 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18 Posts: 1520 Has thanked: 449 times Been thanked: 588 times
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je280 wrote: If it was not for you pokefraker I seriously doubt any of us on here with perhaps one or two exceptions would have ever seen these discs in action, if there are exceptions they have not come on here with the detail & actual footage you have so kindly provided.
You have put quite a bit of time & effort into your input & please be sure it is genuinely appreciated - I am pretty sure not just be me. Indeed. This is fantastic. Thank you.
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cplusplus
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Post subject: The ODC LVDR and RLV Posted: 28 May 2020, 19:11 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18 Posts: 1520 Has thanked: 449 times Been thanked: 588 times
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Sources: Video Discs Compact Discs and Digital Optical Discs Systems. Hendley. February 1985. Broadcast Engineering Magazine Magazine of Broadcast Management/Engineering Microvitec Pamphlet from Domesday86 Patents US4809022A, EP0130026B1, EP0139354A1 optical-disc.com via Wayback Machine laserdisc-recording.com via Wayback Machine The black and white photo pokefraker uploaded here is from the last page of Videodisc and Optical Memory Systems. Isailovic. 1985 and the color one is a still from the video he posted under it. --- The ODC LVDR DRAW (Direct Read After Write) recorders entered the market with the LVDR 610 in 1984. The system initially consisted of three components: 611 Studio Console
This is the base machine. It contains two lasers: the Ar gas laser that writes and the HeNe gas laser that reads. The disc was suspended in air by gas (possibly CO2) from a tank housed in the bottom of the unit. The purpose of this was to keep a constant distance between the objective lens and the disc. The electronics that control the servos, operation, power, etc were rack mounted. The price was $160,000. 612 Vertical Interval Encoder/Signal Generator
Responsible for encoding LaserVision frame numbers, chapters, etc in the Vertical Blanking Interval (VBI). 613 Video Monitor package
Optional add-on that included a Tektronix 650HR monitor, 1740 waveform monitor, and 620 X-Y monitor. The total price of the complete package was $200,000 (this would be just under $500,000 today). In order to be eligible to purchase a LVDR system, you needed to be a licensee of DiscoVision Associates. Additionally, ODC offered the 615 Pulldown Processor that automated frame flagging and the 616 Evaluation Station to check the RLV after recording. Eventually a revision of the LVDR 610 system debuted by early 1986 known as the LVDR 610A with improved audio and microprocessor control. The price remained $200,000. Of the two widely circulated photos, the black and white photo is the LVDR 610 and I believe the color one to be the LVDR 610A. The latter is from a Pioneer video describing the laserdisc manufacturing process. In the video, it appears the LVDR is being used to create a “check disc” before production reaches full-scale. Notice the ventilation installed which might be used to vent the gas used to suspend the disc while recording or the gas created while recording the disc. The PAL version of the 610A was known as the 620A. At some point it became possible to write both plastic and glass discs, but glass was not an option in 1985. Glass RLVs were more expensive, but provided better quality. The LVDR system supported both CAV and CLV, but I do not believe digital sound was possible. At the height of RLV production, there were 40+ LVDR systems operating around the world, from Asia, to North America, to Europe. ODC was even awarded the Engineering Emmy Award for the LVDR in 1988. As LaserVision eventually declined, so did RLV and the last RLV Service Bureaus closed in the early 2000s not long after worldwide laserdisc production stopped. ODC would continue to operate after renaming itself ODC Nimbus. Sometime around a decade ago, ODC Nimbus closed its office and remaining assets were auctioned off in 2015. I was able to view photos of the items auctioned and did not see anything related to the LVDR or RLVs. I reached out to one individual who visited the Laserdisc Recording Center (a “RLV Service Bureau”) around 2003 to purchase some laserdisc players from them. He obtained a blank RLV in the process. He asked to see the recording machine, but he was told it had been thrown away. It is safe to say almost all were scrapped. RLV
The key difference between laserdiscs and RLVs is the extra layer of a thermo-reactive dye mixture between the plastic and aluminum that gives the discs their characteristic color. Similar to the ablation of the photoresist coating on a glass master we see in laserdisc mastering videos, this dye was carefully selected to allow for the maximum absorption of the 488nm (blue) Ar gas recording laser while remaining transmissive to the HeNe (orange/red) reading laser (and later infrared semiconductor lasers). The discs are hollow inside and no amount of pressure should be applied to the surface of the disc. The price per RLV was $75-100 in early 1985. The second revision of RLV discs were known as the RLV Mark II.
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