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efishell
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Post subject: Re: Why Are There No HDVS Discs or MUSE LDs with Dolby Digit Posted: 01 Jan 2024, 14:43 |
Shows curiousity |
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Joined: 26 Apr 2023, 15:48 Posts: 29 Location: Turkey Has thanked: 1 time Been thanked: 4 times
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substance wrote: Early Hi-Vision releases predate both Dolby Surround AC-3 and DTS Laserdiscs. They likely didn’t exist during MUSE encoding development and NHK developed the DANCE audio soundtracks. DTS was relatively small company in its early days. The company was comparable to Ultra Stereo which no one knows now. It would have never been where it is now if it didn’t attract Steven Spielberg’s attention. All this happened well MUSE and DANCE have been developed. Another distant reason could be the royalty fees. Hi-Vision had DANCE which could do discreet surround sound. Why pay more royalty fees to Dolby and DTS?
As far as the capacity goes, Hi-Vision discs had the capacity to have both DTS and Dolby Surround AC-3. You didn’t ask but they could technically have LD-G too but it wasn’t implemented. Thank you for your reply. I've seen AC-3 RF on a few models like the HLD-X0, but never on a product from 1987-1993. What does it take to use DANCE?
_________________ Analog HD products (Baseband, HDVS Disc, LaserDisc) enthusiast
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admin
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Post subject: Re: Why Are There No HDVS Discs or MUSE LDs with Dolby Digit Posted: 01 Jan 2024, 16:45 |
Site Admin |
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Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37 Posts: 4569 Location: Tokyo Has thanked: 299 times Been thanked: 1166 times
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efishell wrote: What does it take to use DANCE? a MUSE source (like a Hi-Vision Laserdisc played on a MUSE Player or a W-VHS tape on a W-VHS deck) and a MUSE decoder. But that requires digging in vintage products (20~25 years old), with a good dollar budget. Julien
_________________ HARDWARE DATABASE HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
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substance
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Post subject: Re: Why Are There No HDVS Discs or MUSE LDs with Dolby Digit Posted: 01 Jan 2024, 18:52 |
Confirmed Padawan |
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Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05 Posts: 3592 Location: California, USA Has thanked: 28 times Been thanked: 328 times
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efishell wrote: substance wrote: Early Hi-Vision releases predate both Dolby Surround AC-3 and DTS Laserdiscs. They likely didn’t exist during MUSE encoding development and NHK developed the DANCE audio soundtracks. DTS was relatively small company in its early days. The company was comparable to Ultra Stereo which no one knows now. It would have never been where it is now if it didn’t attract Steven Spielberg’s attention. All this happened well MUSE and DANCE have been developed. Another distant reason could be the royalty fees. Hi-Vision had DANCE which could do discreet surround sound. Why pay more royalty fees to Dolby and DTS?
As far as the capacity goes, Hi-Vision discs had the capacity to have both DTS and Dolby Surround AC-3. You didn’t ask but they could technically have LD-G too but it wasn’t implemented. Thank you for your reply. I've seen AC-3 RF on a few models like the HLD-X0, but never on a product from 1987-1993. What does it take to use DANCE? There is nothing out there or have been released in the past which can properly process DANCE audio within modern standards. DANCE A-Mode is 3+1 channels that is front left, front center, front right and a single mono rear in 13 bits with 32kHz. MUSE decoders output these channels in analog RCA or a pair of SPDIF (Toslink or Coax). MUSE decoders internally upsample and upscale the DANCE stream to 16 bit 48kHz on both analog and digital outputs. The digital outputs have front left and right on one SPDIF output and center and mono rear on another SPDIF output. MUSE decoders also have an un-decoded native DANCE output but there is no AV processor out there which can decode it. There is no delay/distance or sound level adjustments in the MUSE decoder so all channels output in the same magnitude and phase. Typically people feed the 3+1 analog outputs into an AVR with 6ch (or 8ch) analog inputs. They use a Y-splitter for the mono rear channel which practically turns 3+1 into 5.0 channels. Keep in mind these MUSE decoders are very old now. Their DACs are outdated so the analog outputs will not have the best clarity and dynamics to begin with. DANCE channels are in full range so no LFE ( .1 ) channel is not a big issue unless you routed all your bass to your subwoofer in your AVR/AVP. Nearly none of the AVR/AVP will do bass management on their 6ch/8ch analog inputs. They won't do distance/delay/phase correction on the analog inputs either. Outlaw made an out board base management pre-amp in the early 2000s. You can try to find one in the used market to retract bass from 5.0ch and create LFE. It won't do distance/delay/phase so there is no remedy for these. Your speakers will be out of alignment and out of tune while listening to DANCE unless if you have identical full range speakers all around and they are exactly the same distance from your seating position. Some people bought DTS encoders. Creative made one for PC gamers in the early 2000s. There are some pro encoders directly from DTS too. You can route the analog 3+1 into these DTS encoders. You can use a Y-splitter for the mono rear and the Outlaw base management pre-amp for the LFE before the DTS encoder. the DTS encoder will encode these analog inputs into DTS 5.1 with 1.5mbps bitrate. It is not really 1:1 bit perfect but close enough. The DTS encoder will output this new DTS 5.1 stream into any modern AVR/AVP through its single SPDIF output (Toslink or Coax). Any AVR/AVP capable of processing DTS should be able to apply base management and delay/distance/phase to this stream. If you have a modern AVP/AVR, it will even do room correction (Dirac, Audyssey etc..).
_________________ Coming Soon Derman Labs Anything Of Substance
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substance
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Post subject: Re: Why Are There No HDVS Discs or MUSE LDs with Dolby Digit Posted: 01 Jan 2024, 20:48 |
Confirmed Padawan |
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Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05 Posts: 3592 Location: California, USA Has thanked: 28 times Been thanked: 328 times
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@efishell, I just noticed, you are the first person to post here from Türkiye. @admin, Julien, you got the Turkish flag mixed up with the Tunisian one in profiles Attachment:
IMG_0508.png [ 5.53 KiB | Viewed 297 times ]
Turkish flag
_________________ Coming Soon Derman Labs Anything Of Substance
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admin
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Post subject: Re: Why Are There No HDVS Discs or MUSE LDs with Dolby Digit Posted: 02 Jan 2024, 01:24 |
Site Admin |
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Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 23:37 Posts: 4569 Location: Tokyo Has thanked: 299 times Been thanked: 1166 times
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substance wrote: @admin, Julien, you got the Turkish flag mixed up with the Tunisian one in profiles Unacceptable !!! I demand repercussions and a formal claim at the United Nations !!! => Fixed (might require to refresh the cache to show the correct flag) Julien
_________________ HARDWARE DATABASE HLD-X0/9 LD-S9 OPPO 105/205 SL-1200G LDD-1 MSC-4000 R2144 PONTUS II C45 MC257
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