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 Post subject: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011, 02:14 
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im looking for a new player, not neccasarily an elite but defenitly one with a good comb filter, which ones had good filters?
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011, 03:07 
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They all have (varingly) pretty bad comb filters. You'd be better off with something external. Personally I use a RCA DRC8335 (before feeding it to a scaler).
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011, 03:28 
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From what I've read from people that have them......the Pioneer cld-97 and cld-99 are supposed to have good comb filters which were elite players, but could cost some to get one. I'm not sure what the comb filter is like on the Pioneer cld-d704 (never had that model) but it's supposed to be the best non-elite player Pioneer made.

Maybe some other members can comment on the that models comb filter.
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011, 06:01 
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As naiaru stated, you are better off passing the LD composite signal through an external DVD recorder. I'm using the Panasonic DMR-ES15 DVD recorder and its internal comb filter is way better than what is built into the Pioneer CLD-D704.

These DVD recorders can be found rather cheaply on ebay, especially those that no longer read a DVD but all other functions still work.

My set up:
Pioneer CLD-D704 (480i composite out)=> Panasonic DMR-ES15 DVD-R (480p component out)=> DVDO iScan VP20 (1080p HDMI out)=> Sharp Aquos LC-52D62U (52" HDTV).
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011, 07:42 
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Even the best comb filter built into a LD player is going to be mediocre by today's standards. There's an argument for using a player such as a Pioneer CLD-S104 which doesn't process video at all, & an external processor to do everything (comb filtering, scaling, &c).
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011, 15:32 
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naiaru wrote:
They all have (varingly) pretty bad comb filters. You'd be better off with something external. Personally I use a RCA DRC8335 (before feeding it to a scaler).

I also use the RCA DRC8335 for my Samsung TX-T3092WH CRT display, which has a poor comb filter.

OTOH, my SONY KD-36XS955 CRT display has an excellent comb filter and doesn't require an external one at all!

TLK :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2011, 18:41 
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publius wrote:
Even the best comb filter built into a LD player is going to be mediocre by today's standards. There's an argument for using a player such as a Pioneer CLD-S104 which doesn't process video at all, & an external processor to do everything (comb filtering, scaling, &c).

I've heard that before too. I have my CLD-S104 as my main player. I wonder if I put it through my Samsung DVD-R120 (which outputs via component) if that'll work as a comb filter and give me a slightly better picture? Or would that just not do anything compared to plugging it directly into my Panasonic Plasma? :?:
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2011, 00:40 
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limeibook86 wrote:
publius wrote:
Even the best comb filter built into a LD player is going to be mediocre by today's standards. There's an argument for using a player such as a Pioneer CLD-S104 which doesn't process video at all, & an external processor to do everything (comb filtering, scaling, &c).

I've heard that before too. I have my CLD-S104 as my main player. I wonder if I put it through my Samsung DVD-R120 (which outputs via component) if that'll work as a comb filter and give me a slightly better picture? Or would that just not do anything compared to plugging it directly into my Panasonic Plasma? :?:

I'd guess the DVD-Recorder would have a better comb filter, but I'd recommend testing them both out.
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2011, 20:27 
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publius wrote:
Even the best comb filter built into a LD player is going to be mediocre by today's standards. There's an argument for using a player such as a Pioneer CLD-S104 which doesn't process video at all, & an external processor to do everything (comb filtering, scaling, &c).

Are there any players that do no video processing at all like the S104, but has dual side play and optical audio output?
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2011, 20:40 
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elahrairrah wrote:
Are there any players that do no video processing at all like the S104, but has dual side play and optical audio output?

Both the Pioneer LD-S2 (LD-X1 in Japan) & Sony HIL-C2EX have "straight" composite output jacks, but they still use digital timebase correctors, rather than the analog kind found in the S104. Beyond that I don't know.
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2011, 20:42 
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yeah, I was afraid of that. That the only one's that do that are the really high end ones.

I have been trying to get an LD-S2, but last one I saw on Ebay went for a ridiculous $6k.
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2011, 23:02 
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The LD-S2 really has the typical signal path with selectable DNR for ALL signal paths, the difference with the Video 2 outputs is that they bypass the analog on-screen character generator circuit. The S2 looks so good because the design was made specifically to keep noise levels so low it looks good. You do have to go to the entry level players S104, S201 etc to get pure analog players. If the digital audio chipset has a SDPIF then you can mod it to get a digital audio output as digital audio is unrelated to the video processing. Even the HLD-X0 which is considered by many to be the best LD picture is a digital processing machine but with a very low noise design.

The best Comb filters are the Adaptive ones in the CLD-97. 99, LD-S9, HLD-X9. The X9 is the best I've seen but these are older 1990's designs. A lot of advances have been made as long as your TV incorporated decent NTSC input processing. Best to get the newer DVDO separate scalers or other quality ones.
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2011, 23:04 
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elahrairrah wrote:
yeah, I was afraid of that. That the only one's that do that are the really high end ones.

I have been trying to get an LD-S2, but last one I saw on Ebay went for a ridiculous $6k.


I have a S2 on eBay now and have another that has a dinged side panel minus original remote. Those high prices were one time glitches.
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2011, 00:15 
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The X9, S9 and R7G all had the best comb filters ever put into a laserdisc player. Rarely talked about is the D-EXT feature that these units also had (not sure of S9). This greatly eliminated the washed out look you got on some discs. In some cases you really have to play around with other adjustments for the D-EXT to be effective. This way underestimated feature can make a tremendous viewing difference.
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2011, 03:52 
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I am truly happy with the comb filter built into my VisionHDQ. If you can come across one of them you won't get disappointed.
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2011, 15:20 
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tomrlee_m998 wrote:
I am truly happy with the comb filter built into my VisionHDQ. If you can come across one of them you won't get disappointed.

The Faroudja NRS scaler also has a fantastic comb filter.

TLK :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2011, 05:20 
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I use an Entech CVSI-1 composite to component device which is a 2D comb filter. I get slightly better results than built in 2D filter in MLD-7020(CLD-97)
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2011, 14:10 
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substance wrote:
I use an Entech CVSI-1 composite to component device which is a 2D comb filter. I get slightly better results than built in 2D filter in MLD-7020(CLD-97)

I tested the Entech unit once using the Snell & Wilcox 2 test pattern in the Video Essentials LD. Rainbows all over the place. I was less than impressed with it. This is what it (and many other external comb filters) look like:

Image


This is what the test pattern looks like through my RCA DRC8335 DVD/VHS recorder:

Image


Big difference.

TLK :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2011, 15:37 
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The only issue I see with that test is that it looks like the colors are desaturated and the picture darkened a bit. I imagine that can be corrected with proper calibration, though?

Still, amazing job or cleaning up all the artifacting!
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 Post subject: Re: best comb filters
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2011, 18:40 
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elahrairrah wrote:
The only issue I see with that test is that it looks like the colors are desaturated and the picture darkened a bit. I imagine that can be corrected with proper calibration, though?

Still, amazing job or cleaning up all the artifacting!

Yes, this is just the raw feed out of the cheapo DVD/VHS recorder. I then pass that signal into my DVDO/iScan VP30 (with ABT102 card), and I can let my scaler play with the brightness controls, etc.

TLK :cool:
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