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takeshi666
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Post subject: The Matrix LD vs DVD Posted: 26 Jul 2018, 16:31 |
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Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 02:41 Posts: 2001 Location: Finland Has thanked: 186 times Been thanked: 391 times
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I saw someone claiming that the LD is the only way to see the movie in it's original colours, but I swore that the original DVD release also used the same colour grading - but without any screenshots to prove things either way, that debate was quickly brought to a halt. But I just came across this. Just one screenshot so it's not much to go on, but it at least seems to suggest that the colours were not significantly altered between the LD and the DVD, if they were altered at all.
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blam1
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Post subject: Re: The Matrix LD vs DVD Posted: 26 Jul 2018, 18:00 |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2002, 18:44 Posts: 961 Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 122 times
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There was a lot of discussion back when the title first came out. I personally thought the DVD was TOO green. The LaserDisc has different color timing. I have an A/B screen shot somewhere at home that I made. Let me see if I can dig it up. So not as "dramatic" as I remembered, but here you go...
Last edited by blam1 on 30 Jul 2018, 04:04, edited 1 time in total.
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takeshi666
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Post subject: Re: The Matrix LD vs DVD Posted: 26 Jul 2018, 22:32 |
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Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 02:41 Posts: 2001 Location: Finland Has thanked: 186 times Been thanked: 391 times
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rein-o wrote: There is mention in a topic but I can't remember which one. I believe laserbite posted pictures of his LD and DVD also. If you have the time to search the forum you may find it LOL Did, the images are all gone.
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rein-o
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Post subject: Re: The Matrix LD vs DVD Posted: 26 Jul 2018, 22:47 |
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Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05 Posts: 8119 Location: Dullaware Has thanked: 1228 times Been thanked: 851 times
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takeshi666 wrote: rein-o wrote: There is mention in a topic but I can't remember which one. I believe laserbite posted pictures of his LD and DVD also. If you have the time to search the forum you may find it LOL Did, the images are all gone. Oh Schiznich
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hippiedalek
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Post subject: Re: The Matrix LD vs DVD Posted: 27 Jul 2018, 10:27 |
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Joined: 20 Feb 2011, 19:23 Posts: 1033 Location: United Kingdom Has thanked: 30 times Been thanked: 26 times
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takeshi666 wrote: I saw someone claiming that the LD is the only way to see the movie in it's original colours, but I swore that the original DVD release also used the same colour grading - but without any screenshots to prove things either way, that debate was quickly brought to a halt. But I just came across this. Just one screenshot so it's not much to go on, but it at least seems to suggest that the colours were not significantly altered between the LD and the DVD, if they were altered at all. That's my tweet, I'm LaserdiscTurtle on there. I actually got those screenshot from the discussion on here that other people have already mentioned. I think the discussion was from the The Laserdisc Screenshot Thread but many of the pictures have since disappeared. I think the captures were made by nissling but I could be wrong. Hope this helps.
_________________ Pioneer DVL-919E, Onkyo TX-NR626, LG C8 OLED. My Collection
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takeshi666
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Post subject: Re: The Matrix LD vs DVD Posted: 27 Jul 2018, 17:30 |
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Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 02:41 Posts: 2001 Location: Finland Has thanked: 186 times Been thanked: 391 times
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nissling wrote: Photobucket really hates me, so it took me much more effort than I first thought to get these captures saved and so I uploaded them again. Also added two screenshots from the DVD. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DBFWS ... lA2g5uGVfwPhotobucket hates everybody. I've moved on to using imgur or puush entirely.
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takeshi666
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Post subject: Re: The Matrix LD vs DVD Posted: 27 Jul 2018, 22:55 |
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Joined: 01 Feb 2018, 02:41 Posts: 2001 Location: Finland Has thanked: 186 times Been thanked: 391 times
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gypsy wrote: I have it on regular BD, which is pretty good. Mostly just curious about the comparisons. This website is your friend.
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nissling
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Post subject: Re: The Matrix LD vs DVD Posted: 28 Jul 2018, 20:03 |
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Joined: 24 Jun 2010, 10:23 Posts: 1645 Location: Sweden Has thanked: 11 times Been thanked: 80 times
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It's so funny how all people are complaining about "history revision" yet have no experience whatsoever in this business. I'm a film restorer and colorist. Here's a little thing for you all to consider before you start yelling how inaccurate modern releases are: During the 80s and 90s, most TV manufacturers (especially Sony with their Trinitron sets) had such terrible accuracy out of the box with major blue push. We do see this kind of torch mode today of course, but back then there was really not as much interest for consumers to calibrate their displays and as the movie studios have always been interested in making money, most films that appeared on home video and Laserdisc were to a certain point color timed to compensate for these inaccurate sets (hence red push was very common on masters in this era of time). This meant that pretty much every DVD you'll find by MGM released prior to 2005 or such will have an overly reddish tone and all share the exact same characteristic. Only problem however is that most of these films had much more sophisticated color timings than what we saw on VHS and DVD yet people still take this for granted. And this becomes extremely clear when you start to have a look at the physical films in an archive. Theatrical prints, even though they never tend to have much sharpness, are usually what we go after. And they rarely have much in common with an outdated VHS, Laserdisc or DVD. Of course we can still have a look at a home video release just for the sake of it, but we know that it has been going through way too many compromises to be used as a reference. For instance, I had the chance to check out Thief on a Swedish 35mm print from the early 80s. I kept the new grade that's used on the Criterion and Arrow releases (Director's Cut only), as people have complained for years for it being inaccurate. Look at this comparison: http://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1& ... 07&i=6&l=0And guess what? This scene was so cold and blue, even when only going through a photochemical process, that's it's not even debateable. The MGM was so off you wouldn't believe it, while the restoration by Criterion keeps it all intact. Many people complained about the Scanners Blu-Ray by Criterion yet relatively few (in contrast) seem to even have seen it. I've got the BD myself and have honestly no doubt that it's an accurate presentation of the films intended look. The entire process was also supervised by David Cronenberg himself and from my experience, both directors and cinematagraphers tend to remember the color timings and gradings that were used for their films. As a colorist at one the oldest film archives in the world, I have no intention in changing how the films I grade are supposed to look. I can do plenty of research before I settle down with my work, but sometimes you will have to take a chance if it's unclear just how the film was really supposed to look. Then I will have to look at other factors that play in and try to make a decision from there, but I don't go to Blu-Ray.com or this forum to ask for suggestions. I have a very difficult time believing that someone who hangs around there or at this place, who I don't know through my job, would be of any help when I'm facing a problem like that.
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firehorse_44
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Post subject: Re: The Matrix LD vs DVD Posted: 29 Jul 2018, 02:32 |
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Joined: 11 Jun 2008, 06:10 Posts: 1617 Location: Milky Way-Sol System-Terra-USA-North Carlolina. Has thanked: 562 times Been thanked: 239 times
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nissling wrote: It's so funny how all people are complaining about "history revision" yet have no experience whatsoever in this business. I'm a film restorer and colorist. Here's a little thing for you all to consider before you start yelling how inaccurate modern releases are: During the 80s and 90s, most TV manufacturers (especially Sony with their Trinitron sets) had such terrible accuracy out of the box with major blue push. We do see this kind of torch mode today of course, but back then there was really not as much interest for consumers to calibrate their displays and as the movie studios have always been interested in making money, most films that appeared on home video and Laserdisc were to a certain point color timed to compensate for these inaccurate sets (hence red push was very common on masters in this era of time). This meant that pretty much every DVD you'll find by MGM released prior to 2005 or such will have an overly reddish tone and all share the exact same characteristic. Only problem however is that most of these films had much more sophisticated color timings than what we saw on VHS and DVD yet people still take this for granted. And this becomes extremely clear when you start to have a look at the physical films in an archive. Theatrical prints, even though they never tend to have much sharpness, are usually what we go after. And they rarely have much in common with an outdated VHS, Laserdisc or DVD. Of course we can still have a look at a home video release just for the sake of it, but we know that it has been going through way too many compromises to be used as a reference. For instance, I had the chance to check out Thief on a Swedish 35mm print from the early 80s. I kept the new grade that's used on the Criterion and Arrow releases (Director's Cut only), as people have complained for years for it being inaccurate. Look at this comparison: http://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1& ... 07&i=6&l=0And guess what? This scene was so cold and blue, even when only going through a photochemical process, that's it's not even debateable. The MGM was so off you wouldn't believe it, while the restoration by Criterion keeps it all intact. Many people complained about the Scanners Blu-Ray by Criterion yet relatively few (in contrast) seem to even have seen it. I've got the BD myself and have honestly no doubt that it's an accurate presentation of the films intended look. The entire process was also supervised by David Cronenberg himself and from my experience, both directors and cinematagraphers tend to remember the color timings and gradings that were used for their films. As a colorist at one the oldest film archives in the world, I have no intention in changing how the films I grade are supposed to look. I can do plenty of research before I settle down with my work, but sometimes you will have to take a chance if it's unclear just how the film was really supposed to look. Then I will have to look at other factors that play in and try to make a decision from there, but I don't go to Blu-Ray.com or this forum to ask for suggestions. I have a very difficult time believing that someone who hangs around there or at this place, who I don't know through my job, would be of any help when I'm facing a problem like that. Thank you nissling ! Very informative post...... Cheers !
_________________ Acta Non Verba ..... Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum .... Si Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc ......
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