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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2019, 23:50 
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substance wrote:
1.66:1 is the correct ratio? Imdb although not always reliable says 1.85:1.


Director Peter Weir filmed in the 1.66:1 ratio to make it feel more like a television show. Only the original DVD is in this aspect ratio. The theatrical cut was cropped to 1.85:1 and the Blu-ray release to 1.78:1.

That's exactly the reason why I watch Full Metal Jacket only in the intended ratio and not the cropped version found on later DVD and Blu-Ray releases. That's why I would even prefer the Laserdisc version over the DVD because the DVD is 5.1 and the Laserdisc of Full Metal Jackson is monaural. I need to correct myself: The first US DVD of said film was monaural, too, but all other later releases all had a 5.1 upmix included on them.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 01:33 
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Full Metal Jacket was one of my favorite films growing up. I opened a history book on the Vietnam War in the school library to the chapter on Hue. There was a still from the movie of the characters crouched behind a concrete wall, hahaha.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 05:46 
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confederate wrote:
substance wrote:
1.66:1 is the correct ratio? Imdb although not always reliable says 1.85:1.


Director Peter Weir filmed in the 1.66:1 ratio to make it feel more like a television show. Only the original DVD is in this aspect ratio. The theatrical cut was cropped to 1.85:1 and the Blu-ray release to 1.78:1.

That's exactly the reason why I watch Full Metal Jacket only in the intended ratio and not the cropped version found on later DVD and Blu-Ray releases. That's why I would even prefer the Laserdisc version over the DVD because the DVD is 5.1 and the Laserdisc of Full Metal Jackson is monaural. I need to correct myself: The first US DVD of said film was monaural, too, but all other later releases all had a 5.1 upmix included on them.



I am confused. What’s the correct aspect ratio and soundtrack for full metal? Which home media has it right?
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 13:00 
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substance wrote:
I am confused. What’s the correct aspect ratio and soundtrack for full metal? Which home media has it right?

It's meant to be in widescreen.

Kubrick started shooting his movies in open matte with the advent of home video so they wouldn't be subjected to pan & scan.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 14:46 
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takeshi666 wrote:
substance wrote:
I am confused. What’s the correct aspect ratio and soundtrack for full metal? Which home media has it right?

It's meant to be in widescreen.

Kubrick started shooting his movies in open matte with the advent of home video so they wouldn't be subjected to pan & scan.


You mean meant to be in a matted widescreen.

He shot in 1.37 primarily due to the fact that he was a photographer and wanted the full image he was seeing, or that's what I remember reading once.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 15:31 
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The OAR for The Shining, Eyes Wide Shut and Full Metal Jacket was 1.33:1.

The original sound mix of Full Metal Jacket was monaural. Woody Allen was also shooting the majority of his films in mono because like Kubrick he did not care about surround sound.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 16:53 
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Delete please.


Last edited by signofzeta on 14 Jan 2019, 16:55, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 16:54 
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substance wrote:
Just picked up the newly released Nemesis Bluray yesterday. It comes with 3 versions of the film. The theatrical cut is on Blu-ray and in 1080p. Audio is lpcm 2.0. This disc holds both 1.78:1 version and 2.35:1 version of the theatrical cut. They appear to be different masters. 2.35:1 version is granier and less processed.

The other two cuts are on the provided dvd. They are in 480i. These versions are directors cut and japanese cut. Directors cut is in 1.78:1 and the japanese cut is in 1.33:1 with japanese subs burned in the image. The japanese cut is a big suspect they used the japanese ld as the master :)


Dang. That’s complete. Do you mean Star Trek Nemisis or the direct to video series? Honestly for either that’s very complete
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 17:50 
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signofzeta wrote:
substance wrote:
Just picked up the newly released Nemesis Bluray yesterday. It comes with 3 versions of the film. The theatrical cut is on Blu-ray and in 1080p. Audio is lpcm 2.0. This disc holds both 1.78:1 version and 2.35:1 version of the theatrical cut. They appear to be different masters. 2.35:1 version is granier and less processed.

The other two cuts are on the provided dvd. They are in 480i. These versions are directors cut and japanese cut. Directors cut is in 1.78:1 and the japanese cut is in 1.33:1 with japanese subs burned in the image. The japanese cut is a big suspect they used the japanese ld as the master :)


Dang. That’s complete. Do you mean Star Trek Nemisis or the direct to video series? Honestly for either that’s very complete



No it’s a movie called “Nemesis” by Albert Pyun (Cyborg). Yes, the Blu-ray is very impressive with the amount of content and packaging. It’s got this retro vhs type slipcase. I will post pictures tonight.

Note: Contrary to many, I actually liked ST: Nemesis.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 17:51 
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confederate wrote:
The OAR for The Shining, Eyes Wide Shut and Full Metal Jacket was 1.33:1.

The original sound mix of Full Metal Jacket was monaural. Woody Allen was also shooting the majority of his films in mono because like Kubrick he did not care about surround sound.



Yes many films and tv series were shot in full frame but intended for widescreen. Are you sure he intended these to be seen in full screen?
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 21:44 
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I’m no Kubricker but The Shining looks extremely correct in whatever ratio that amazing $7 Blu-ray is.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 21:58 
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substance wrote:
confederate wrote:
The OAR for The Shining, Eyes Wide Shut and Full Metal Jacket was 1.33:1.

The original sound mix of Full Metal Jacket was monaural. Woody Allen was also shooting the majority of his films in mono because like Kubrick he did not care about surround sound.



Yes many films and tv series were shot in full frame but intended for widescreen. Are you sure he intended these to be seen in full screen?


I found an article here:

https://www.alternateending.com/blog/ku ... his-ratios

When looking at the comparison shots from Full Metal Jacket I can see that the widescreen release is simply cropped and doesn't offer any additional information left or right.

But the films were shot in 1.37:1. There is no doubt about it. Apparently insisted on having his films released in full screen instead of widescreen.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 22:35 
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signofzeta wrote:
I’m no Kubricker but The Shining looks extremely correct in whatever ratio that amazing $7 Blu-ray is.

The Shining is definitely intended to be in widescreen. There's no way a perfectionist like Kubrick would let something like the helicopter shadow in the opening credits slide, and it's only visible in the fullscreen version.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 00:04 
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I think one has to keep an open mind when it comes to changing technology. The audience for the art changes because only the final edited film stands still.

When a classic album is released for SACD or some other high res format a lot has to be done with the sound. The insane dynamic range is no use unless you expand whatever old narrow band classic rock archive they are dealing with. Therefore SACDs will never sound like vinyl and there’s no reason you should want them to.

So what about the lowly TV? If the director of The Truman Show wanted his movie square because that’s what TV looked like in the 90s then, while it is revisionist, doesn’t it make sense that now in 2019 when TV is wide that the movie be wide? If Kubrick shot all his stuff square so that TV wouldn’t be able to mess stuff up, doesn’t it make more sense to watch it on a wide TV that seemlessly blends with the wide movie? From the perspective of cinimetaic correctness all of this is one thing but...I guess it depends. The Truman Show was meant to take place in the near future but it’s now old itself...and in the near future we have wide TVs. Maybe it was just adapted to a square ratio for people watching it in a square ratio.

I guess it depends on if you are trying to put yourself back into the 90s to watch it or if you want it to still look near future. (Personally, with all that ST:TNG indoor sunset lighting I’d say it looks more like that past however more and more dudes are wearing those jazz beenie things now so...). I usually call it the Patlabor problem since that series actually lasted longer than their “...into the future.” buffer allowed them. That is, by 1995 they were already presenting an alternate present because previously they boxed themselves into it by creating a theoretical future and then us living long enough to see it while the show continued to be made (this also happens with Macross but WWIII and aliens make it less obvious).
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 00:20 
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I don't care what the director intended. If I did then I would prefer the special edition versions of Star Wars to the '80s home video releases. The special editions are of course what Lucas apparantly "would have done" and wanted.

I want the version that people, including me, actually saw when it came out. You shouldn't mess with history. If some hack producer forced some changes then that's part of history. The movie might have subjectively suffered from changes the director didn't want but maybe not. Whatever, it was the movie you loved or you want to experience as people actually experienced it in that time. you shouldn't mess with history.

I still want a theatrical version of Star Wars. I would buy that on DVD.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 00:21 
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I just watched Sorcerer from 1977, amazing film.
But this is the same situation. Friedkin said this was his preferred release was P/S in 1.33 but now the Bluray released widescreen is his preferred release.

So even the people can change their minds on what is the correct version.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 03:23 
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Artists grow. Many times their fans do much less. Sometimes they are just ahead of you and you need to catch up. Sometimes they shrink. Sometimes it takes forever to realize we are hero worshiping a hack.

The CORRECT way to see 2001 is in Cineramma. I haven’t done that yet so I have to make do with like...digital video, something classic directors never imagined. Small screens fundamentally change the experience so not even Marty McFly’s gigantic Sony will get you close to the cinema. “Color space? What’s that?” - Orson Wells.

Lucas frankly just sucks. If he was ever good, that’s one thing, but he clearly has no taste since the late 80s and the success of Star Wars, which was %90 the work of others, maybe more, has clearly gone to his head. He’s barely even a director, really more of a producer/toy pitchman.

I do care what the director wants to some degree but it depends on if it’s Kurosawa or Brian Singer, you know. Some people deserve respect and others have so much of it they’ve lost the capacity for critical thought. You have your Chaplins and your Felinis and then you have thousand of people I can’t name because nobody gives a crap. Anything Aaron Sorkin had a hand in will simply be set to the default ratio of the TV. At that point you’ve already sacrificed enough as it is and it doesn’t matter what the director did.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 03:27 
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forper wrote:
I don't care what the director intended. If I did then I would prefer the special edition versions of Star Wars to the '80s home video releases. The special editions are of course what Lucas apparantly "would have done" and wanted.

I want the version that people, including me, actually saw when it came out. You shouldn't mess with history. If some hack producer forced some changes then that's part of history. The movie might have subjectively suffered from changes the director didn't want but maybe not. Whatever, it was the movie you loved or you want to experience as people actually experienced it in that time. you shouldn't mess with history.

I still want a theatrical version of Star Wars. I would buy that on DVD.


So how do you watch Bladerunner, Brazil, Leon, or other movies where the theatrical version was kneecapped by hack producers and finance people and where it’s generally unanimous that re-edited versions are better? What about movies where the version that premiered at Cannes is 8 minutes longer than the eventual world release? Which one is the “original” when there isn’t one?

What about Touch of Evil?
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 04:03 
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Add "The Magnificent Ambersons" to that list as well.

The version that has been around since the beginning is no doubt still a great film but what could the film had been if RKO didn't step in and edit it their way from what Orson Welles envisioned. We'll never know since all those film negatives that were cut are long gone.

And for the most part, I personally like having the choice to watch different versions of a film. Sometimes a different cut can make a film better (e.g.: Aliens) or worse (e.g.: Return of the Jedi).
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 04:38 
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signofzeta wrote:
forper wrote:
I don't care what the director intended. If I did then I would prefer the special edition versions of Star Wars to the '80s home video releases. The special editions are of course what Lucas apparantly "would have done" and wanted.

I want the version that people, including me, actually saw when it came out. You shouldn't mess with history. If some hack producer forced some changes then that's part of history. The movie might have subjectively suffered from changes the director didn't want but maybe not. Whatever, it was the movie you loved or you want to experience as people actually experienced it in that time. you shouldn't mess with history.

I still want a theatrical version of Star Wars. I would buy that on DVD.


So how do you watch Bladerunner, Brazil, Leon, or other movies where the theatrical version was kneecapped by hack producers and finance people and where it’s generally unanimous that re-edited versions are better? What about movies where the version that premiered at Cannes is 8 minutes longer than the eventual world release? Which one is the “original” when there isn’t one?

What about Touch of Evil?




I'd always prefer an original run theatrical version but when that's not available then my ideal version of anything is the best laserdisc version. That's the version that those dudes with cash and taste I talked about before, the ones that I envied, had in their homes in the '80s and '90s.

I basically want to stay in that time forever. The best time. And it's definitely not just nostalgia talking. This world we live in now is completely f***ed up. Go watch The Last Jedi and see some of the reasons why.
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