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 Post subject: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019, 06:42 
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Hey guys, I just got my first LD player via eBay, and unfortunately I took a gamble on a player that wasn't fully tested. When I got it, the tray would not open at all, and it would make a loud noise before giving an "E3" error. I got the tray opening fixed but now I'm left with the following problem:

When the laser assembly tries to move, the gear on top spins but it doesn't seem to spin the two gears below it that move it on the track. One direction kinda works (moving toward the front of the unit), but the other direction doesn't. I lubricated everything with white lithium grease (tell me if that is a big no-no), but that didn't seem to help. I notice that the top of the two gears in the m holder has a lot of play and I believe this is the problem (it gets in a position where it doesn't fully contact the bottom gear).

I read a lot just now on broken m holders, but I don't really see anything broken on it. I'm wondering if this is a common problem with the gears and if there's something I should know about assembly so that the gears don't move around under the M holder. Also let me know if you think the type of grease I used could be the problem. Seems unlikely, but I am new to this. Thanks in advance.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019, 14:20 
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Grease is fine, no problems unless you got it on a belt and its slipping, I've done that once, only once :lol:

I'm no tech but the M holder is an issue on some players depending on color and if its broken.
I don't know how to tell if its broken but I guess you would just take it out and examine it.
Also could it be that gears are not in the correct order and that's why you are getting the error?? that they are binding somewhere?
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019, 14:25 
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Did you totally disassembled the pickup assembly ?
Maybe the holder is broken but you didn't see it. If a gear's axle is broken, maybe the gears sometimes "jump".
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019, 15:11 
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Sounds like the M Holder. I’ve never seen one completely strip out like that but yeah if the axles break the gears will hop. You can’t tell for sure without taking it apart because the entire gearbox holds the broken axle mostly in place. I had a player where the M Holder was broken but also one of the gears was missing parts of teeth.

This may have happened as you were powering it up for the first time in who knows how long. If there is too much load on the trolley because of grease or it just being stuck from not moving for 15 years it will break that part HOWEVER it has to be said that part breaks eventually anyway for some reason so don’t feel too bad about it.

Someone should write a guide about how not to break players which would include some yet to be developed advice on a slow power ups and mechanical prechecks and of course shipping advice. The older players are over 30 now and in addition to caps that haven’t been heated in decades there could also be friction in the mechanical stuff which in older machines see massively higher mechanical loads meaning if possible you’d want to make sure it moved well before you asked it to do work. The LD-W1 for example can cause severe havock to discs if the mechanisms get out of sequence.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019, 16:53 
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Hey guys. Thanks for the replies. I took another look at it, and I believe the lithium grease kind of obscured the problem from my eyes and made me misunderstand how the gears sit in place. I kind of thought they were on these dowels that were kind of held in, but I see now that those "dowels" were really the two plastic posts that had broken off and were now just hanging out in the gears. Well, it looks like the VLN1779 is potentially unobtainium, so do you think it's possible to super glue the posts back onto the m holder?
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019, 17:14 
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The only repair I would attempt would be to get a very small drill and drill out the post and put some type of nail or metal with
30 or 60 minute epoxy.

If you are lucky enough to find the correct diameter you could just get an actual nail and have the flat part on the outside
but you must use longer time epoxy.

Also any glues must be on a super, super clean surface.
You will need to remove all grease otherwise it won't hold for very long.

And if the plastic is brittle any solvents may make the rest of the piece weaker.

I don't see why it can't be fixed but I've never had one to try.
You may also want to try and get that 3D printer file to get someone to print it out?
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019, 17:23 
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I did see someone drew up a 3D model of it, but I don't personally own a 3D printer (although I do have a friend with one). Having said that, it sounded like the nuances of the part would make it difficult/impossible to 3D print. Maybe I misread that or trusted someone's opinion online who didn't know what they were talking about.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019, 20:40 
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At least two people here have attempted 3D prints of this family of parts. So far nothing as come of it. It’s a challenging piece to make that way. I think we’ll have something soon and that’s a good player so keep it around until someone (maybe you!) comes up with a solution.

Both pins being broke is why it doesn’t move at all. Usually it’s just one and then it skips randomly, often only on side B.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019, 21:09 
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Yeah, I think I'm going to hold onto this and hopefully a solution comes up pretty soon. I know the D604 isn't the best player out there, but it seems to have the specs I need for my project. I'll also be checking in on miskia's thread regularly. And of course, if someone has a stash of VNL1779s or 1700s and wants to let go of one, I'd be happy to buy one for a reasonable price. :)
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019, 21:11 
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signofzeta wrote:

This may have happened as you were powering it up for the first time in who knows how long. If there is too much load on the trolley because of grease or it just being stuck from not moving for 15 years it will break that part HOWEVER it has to be said that part breaks eventually anyway for some reason so don’t feel too bad about it.



I guess I finally have my answer on why the M-Holder goes bad and it's unfortunate to know that it could go bad for no particular reason. Fortunately, my CLD-59 is still working fine considering that it was stored for the past seven years or so (maybe because it was boxed and in a cool environment that might have played a part in it but who knows).


Last edited by ldfan on 26 Mar 2019, 08:00, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2019, 09:07 
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I'm working on a good reproduction of the M-holder, as discussed here: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700

I received the first prototype (printed in MultiJet Fusion from HP) which seems to be very solid
There is only 2-3 little things to correct and I'll order a new prototype, which should be a final version.
From there I will be able to order more stucks if some guys need it.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2019, 22:54 
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Find a cheap broke DVL unit for parts and that will give you 2 MHolders which are the improved version that is not as stiff and brittle.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2019, 05:38 
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miskia wrote:
I'm working on a good reproduction of the M-holder, as discussed here: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700

I received the first prototype (printed in MultiJet Fusion from HP) which seems to be very solid
There is only 2-3 little things to correct and I'll order a new prototype, which should be a final version.
From there I will be able to order more stucks if some guys need it.


Thank you for chiming in. I'm waiting patiently and am interested in getting one (or more) from you if you decide to make a bunch of them.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-D604] Laser/pickup body stuck; gears don't spin
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2019, 05:43 
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The 604 has the awful VNL1637 M-Holder, BTW - IMO at this point any player using it* should be considered unshippable, like the M players...

(* - 104/504/604/59 and early CLD-V5000 runs)
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