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hippiedalek
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 18 Apr 2012, 10:42 |
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Joined: 20 Feb 2011, 19:23 Posts: 1033 Location: United Kingdom Has thanked: 30 times Been thanked: 26 times
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Hi alien, welcome to the forum! There's a similar topic already which can be found here. It features a lot of discussion and screen captures of MUSE discs in action. Hope this helps.
_________________ Pioneer DVL-919E, Onkyo TX-NR626, LG C8 OLED. My Collection
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alien
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 20 Apr 2012, 03:34 |
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Joined: 18 Apr 2012, 10:13 Posts: 814 Location: Australia Has thanked: 4 times Been thanked: 6 times
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publius wrote: I've taken some video of MUSE in action, but I failed to account for the effect of shutter speed versus colour-wheel drift when using a single-chip DLP projector. The result is shifts in colour & brightness which don't appear in real life. I'll have to redo it. I'm hoping to rebuild my computer so that it can do analog HD capture, too. Awesome. Please post the videos as soon as you record them. I am getting more and more curious of measuring for myself how the quality stacks up for an older HD format.
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publius
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 20 Oct 2012, 16:46 |
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Joined: 23 Sep 2003, 18:14 Posts: 1391 Location: United States Has thanked: 39 times Been thanked: 21 times
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substance wrote: I don't think MUSE can compete with D-Theater in anyway. People I've conversed with have stated that it is very difficult to tell any difference, at least on video-sourced material. Film-sourced material suffers from the problem that the film transfers for MUSE discs are generally 10 years older. As far as the audio side goes, a MUSE disc can have a CD-type PCM audio track just as a standard LD has, & if it's two-channel, the B-Mode audio is supposed to be indistinguishable from 16/48 PCM. A-Mode 4-channel sounds remarkably good, in fact. Considering the very great differences between the technologies, evaluation by arm-waving isn't very useful.
_________________ MUSE decoder information and user guides LD player connexion guide
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cpix
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 22 Oct 2012, 00:46 |
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Joined: 11 May 2009, 11:12 Posts: 270 Location: Norway Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 0 time
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here is some live footage of muse at least, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eee96ThOoBw though i have sold the unit and the movie now, so can't do any better :/ but i wasn't really amazed by muse, i pretty much prefer regular ld over muse i guess =)
_________________ Pioneer KURO KRP-500M, Crystalio 2 VPS3300, Lumagen 2144, HLD-X9
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alien
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 22 Oct 2012, 01:31 |
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Joined: 18 Apr 2012, 10:13 Posts: 814 Location: Australia Has thanked: 4 times Been thanked: 6 times
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cpix wrote: here is some live footage of muse at least, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eee96ThOoBw though i have sold the unit and the movie now, so can't do any better :/ but i wasn't really amazed by muse, i pretty much prefer regular ld over muse i guess =) Thanks cpix! Even though that YouTube footage doesn't show it, but that looks like it could look pretty good seeing it live in person. I presume Jurassic Park on MUSE still destroys the DVD version of Jurassic Park am I correct? And also why do you prefer regular LD? Wouldn't MUSE absolutely destroy it in terms of quality since its a HD format and all..
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publius
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 22 Oct 2012, 03:05 |
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Joined: 23 Sep 2003, 18:14 Posts: 1391 Location: United States Has thanked: 39 times Been thanked: 21 times
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alien wrote: I presume Jurassic Park on MUSE still destroys the DVD version of Jurassic Park am I correct? I have seen a comparison somewhere. It turns out the DVD was made from the same HD video master as the MUSE LD, but the black level is significantly different.
_________________ MUSE decoder information and user guides LD player connexion guide
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alien
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 23 Oct 2012, 01:31 |
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Joined: 18 Apr 2012, 10:13 Posts: 814 Location: Australia Has thanked: 4 times Been thanked: 6 times
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publius wrote: alien wrote: I presume Jurassic Park on MUSE still destroys the DVD version of Jurassic Park am I correct? I have seen a comparison somewhere. It turns out the DVD was made from the same HD video master as the MUSE LD, but the black level is significantly different. Really? Interesting. I have the DVD and up-converted to 1080i on my DVD upscaler, it looks pretty good. I'd still imagine though that the MUSE version would look better since that uses a native equivalent resolution of 1080i where as an upscaling DVD player is at the source just 480p. Anyway I'd love to see that comparsen for myself if its online some where.
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laserbite34
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 23 Oct 2012, 03:09 |
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Joined: 10 Oct 2006, 17:10 Posts: 3742 Location: United Kingdom Has thanked: 5 times Been thanked: 4 times
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cpix wrote: here is some live footage of muse at least, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eee96ThOoBw though i have sold the unit and the movie now, so can't do any better :/ but i wasn't really amazed by muse, i pretty much prefer regular ld over muse i guess =) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC4o6Cw ... el&list=ULI commented on your video on the above and its true it does sound like sand-paper like as the disc is slipping or sliding between what used to be a rubber-ring that grips the disc along with clamp that is pressing the disc down. BTW that Jurassic Park Muse was cool. How does the Muse 4 channel work or even sound is it discrete audio LCR and with only mono surround rather than stereo surround?
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cpix
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 23 Oct 2012, 13:33 |
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Joined: 11 May 2009, 11:12 Posts: 270 Location: Norway Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 0 time
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laserbite34 wrote: cpix wrote: here is some live footage of muse at least, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eee96ThOoBw though i have sold the unit and the movie now, so can't do any better :/ but i wasn't really amazed by muse, i pretty much prefer regular ld over muse i guess =) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC4o6Cw ... el&list=ULI commented on your video on the above and its true it does sound like sand-paper like as the disc is slipping or sliding between what used to be a rubber-ring that grips the disc along with clamp that is pressing the disc down. BTW that Jurassic Park Muse was cool. How does the Muse 4 channel work or even sound is it discrete audio LCR and with only mono surround rather than stereo surround? ah, thats you =) i only used the analog stereo output on the muse, as i only use a stereo amplifier =)
_________________ Pioneer KURO KRP-500M, Crystalio 2 VPS3300, Lumagen 2144, HLD-X9
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cpix
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 23 Oct 2012, 16:51 |
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Joined: 11 May 2009, 11:12 Posts: 270 Location: Norway Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 0 time
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alien wrote: cpix wrote: here is some live footage of muse at least, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eee96ThOoBw though i have sold the unit and the movie now, so can't do any better :/ but i wasn't really amazed by muse, i pretty much prefer regular ld over muse i guess =) Thanks cpix! Even though that YouTube footage doesn't show it, but that looks like it could look pretty good seeing it live in person. I presume Jurassic Park on MUSE still destroys the DVD version of Jurassic Park am I correct? And also why do you prefer regular LD? Wouldn't MUSE absolutely destroy it in terms of quality since its a HD format and all.. Well, it looks OK, but it's nothing fancy as one would expect. the LD has a very green tint all over it, which annoyed me a tiny bit. As for the image quality, its not far off from regular LD, there are more detail obviously, but not enough to justify spending about 150 dollars or more per movie. It might be better than the DVD, i watch the regular LD over the DVD any day =) I think MUSE is an acquired taste and must be seen in person. I was supposed to do video capture of it, but then i sold the unit and didn't get the chance to. I do have a feeling im gonna end up buying a new decoder, they aren't that expensive on yahoo anyway =) - pix
_________________ Pioneer KURO KRP-500M, Crystalio 2 VPS3300, Lumagen 2144, HLD-X9
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publius
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 23 Oct 2012, 17:41 |
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Joined: 23 Sep 2003, 18:14 Posts: 1391 Location: United States Has thanked: 39 times Been thanked: 21 times
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cpix wrote: Well, it looks OK, but it's nothing fancy as one would expect. the LD has a very green tint all over it, which annoyed me a tiny bit. There's a menu adjustment on the Sony MSC-3000 & MSC-4000 decoders to change the tint. It runs from "more green" to "more blue". There's also a "warm/cool" menu adjustment. Between the two of those, I suspect the 'green tint' people speak of as regards these decoders could be dealt with. laserbite34 wrote: How does the Muse 4 channel work or even sound is it discrete audio LCR and with only mono surround rather than stereo surround? Yes, A-Mode is 4-channel discrete digital audio, LCRS. Sampling is 15 bits 32 kHz, with differencing & companding to 8 bits with 8 ranges (allocated per-channel), multiplexed into the vertical interval, 8 full lines + 8 partial lines, as a 3-level signal with a sampling frequency of 12.15 MHz. I understand that, in satellite broadcasts, poor reception could lead to a 'gravelly' noise due to a high level of 1-bit errors. The LD format is prone to fewer of those, but more long dropouts, so additional error correction is applied. The one A-Mode disc I have sounds very good.
_________________ MUSE decoder information and user guides LD player connexion guide
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laserbite34
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 23 Oct 2012, 18:09 |
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Joined: 10 Oct 2006, 17:10 Posts: 3742 Location: United Kingdom Has thanked: 5 times Been thanked: 4 times
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publius wrote: Yes, A-Mode is 4-channel discrete digital audio, LCRS. Sampling is 15 bits 32 kHz, with differencing & companding to 8 bits with 8 ranges (allocated per-channel), multiplexed into the vertical interval, 8 full lines + 8 partial lines, as a 3-level signal with a sampling frequency of 12.15 MHz. I understand that, in satellite broadcasts, poor reception could lead to a 'gravelly' noise due to a high level of 1-bit errors. The LD format is prone to fewer of those, but more long dropouts, so additional error correction is applied. The one A-Mode disc I have sounds very good.
I see and was this audio format soon dropped in favour for Dolby AC-3 and dts that each hold up to 6 channel discrete. Was the Muse 4 channel a first attempt in discrete audio on Laserdisc, I guess so? Gravelly noise? I can picture the way that sounds.
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publius
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Post subject: Re: Pictures or videos of Muse Hi-Vision discs Posted: 23 Oct 2012, 20:59 |
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Joined: 23 Sep 2003, 18:14 Posts: 1391 Location: United States Has thanked: 39 times Been thanked: 21 times
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laserbite34 wrote: I see and was this audio format soon dropped in favour for Dolby AC-3 and dts that each hold up to 6 channel discrete. Was the Muse 4 channel a first attempt in discrete audio on Laserdisc, I guess so? As far as multi-channel discrete digital audio, Hi-Vision LD was first, coming out in 1992. (I understand that there were experiments with 4-channel analog audio, using sum/difference encoding with a subcarrier, & some discs had up to 4 separate audio channels, on analog & digital tracks, which were not meant to be listened to at the same time.) Of course, because the A-Mode audio is part of the MUSE format, it cannot be used on NTSC LD. Plus, it requires a MUSE decoder. If Hi-Vision LD had become more common, as originally intended, it is possible that neither AC-3 nor dts would have been implemented on NTSC. (Although a Hi-Vision LD could have a dts track, this was probably never done even as an experiment.) I think the decision not to introduce Hi-Vision LD in the US was a big mistake ; there was a lot of work done on cheaper players & decoders, & an internal decoder/downconverter would have been possible, allowing even those without HDTV to watch the discs. Then there would have been no need for separate inventory versions of AC-3 & dts LDs, & so on. Just one 'plain-Jane' NTSC edition, & one MUSE edition with all the bells & whistles. I wonder if I can make a multi-channel audio recording with my computer. I have a digital audio input, & decoders with digital audio outputs, but the problem is that there are separate outputs for 1/L+2/R & 3/C+4/S. I could record them separately, but getting the timing correct is a problem!
_________________ MUSE decoder information and user guides LD player connexion guide
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