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 Post subject: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possible?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2023, 19:39 
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Manufacturing new laserdiscs may not be as impossible as previously believed… to an extent…

Yes, the old manufacturing lines are long gone and we will never see anyone injection molding and bonding new 12” discs as we commonly know them…


BUT. Don’t forget about the 5” CD-Video format!
Yes, I know. Limited to 20 minutes of audio/5 minutes of video. But could still result in something cool and collectible despite those limitations, in the right context…

Although not many specifics regarding their manufacture is publicly known, we do know they were conventionally manufactured on otherwise normal CD pressing lines.
The LBR obviously was modulated in a very specific way so as to write pits and lands modulated for FM video signals. But in all other respects, they were produced as absolutely normal CDs.

This gets me thinking - what if some of the old LBRs are still in use at some manufacturing facilities?
What if newer LBRs still have the means to be modulated in a similar manner if fed with the appropriate signals?

Getting new glass masters made might just be a case of establishing contact with the right individuals at the right facilities. Difficult? Yes. Technically impossible in 2023? Possibly not.
After that, it follows the same photochemical, galvanic and mold injecting processes just as any other CD. I think manufacturing a run of let’s say, 500-1000 or so discs for collectors may not be out of the question.


This leads me to the question of… which plants actually manufactured them back in the day?
I know there were mostly discs out of PDO UK, many from (unidentified) Japanese plants, and even some from PDO in West Germany.

There may be some individuals left at these facilities who have familiarity with the format and may know the exact processes of how they were originally glass mastered.
I tried tracing the history of the PDO plant in Blackburn, which appears to have been sold several times over the years. Ultimately to EDC but unfortunately closed in 2009. So any institutional knowledge that may have been there is unfortunately lost now. But what of the other plants?


With the collective knowledge and will of the LD community, could we actually make something like this happen?
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2023, 21:22 
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It doesn’t really matter who made them back in the day because nobody’s mastering gear is that old now. Nobody is making CDs with 16-bit computers in 2023.

If you wrote your own software for it, you could do it. You’d need total understanding of the process and all the gear involved at the lowest possible level but once you had a stamper any plant could press it.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2023, 21:54 
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signofzeta wrote:
It doesn’t really matter who made them back in the day because nobody’s mastering gear is that old now. Nobody is making CDs with 16-bit computers in 2023.

If you wrote your own software for it, you could do it. You’d need total understanding of the process and all the gear involved at the lowest possible level but once you had a stamper any plant could press it.



There is already proof of concept software (thanks to the folks working in the Domesday Duplicator and ld-decode realm) which can take an input video file and output something equivalent to what would be written to an LD - proven by being able to be decoded as if it were a capture off LD

https://github.com/tandersn/GNRC-Flowgr ... eate_LD_RF

Theoretically, this could be used in conjunction with some appropriate hardware to emulate precisely whatever type of signal would be output by a VTR typically feeding an LBR (or maybe whatever encoder may have come down the line after the VTR - some part of this IS a bit above my paygrade)

The issue I think would be approaching any facilities (without immediately getting the “WTF” response) and seeing if there is some way this could be used to modulate whichever style of LBR is currently in use for CD manufacturing. Mostly a matter of being in contact with the right people who have the authority look into these sort of things.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2023, 19:42 
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Are we still on the same "how to make LDs in 2023" now????

So you expect to make them, or find someone to make them to then put some program on them to copy to a hard drive and then
never watch it again and sit it on your shelf.

People who are getting into LD now hardly watch what they have.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2023, 23:25 
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rein-o wrote:
Are we still on the same "how to make LDs in 2023" now????

So you expect to make them, or find someone to make them to then put some program on them to copy to a hard drive and then
never watch it again and sit it on your shelf.

People who are getting into LD now hardly watch what they have.



Don’t have a cow man, it’s all just a bit of fun! Ultimately if you’re not involved in making them you don’t have to worry about selling them either, so it’s all good. I have no concerns about market viability.

Getting new discs manufactured could have some legitimate uses too. What about a new disc with test signals for servicing/calibrating a player?
Good luck getting a GGV these days at an affordable price… even more luck needed if you have one of the players that requires using the 8” version for alignment.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2023, 15:50 
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mrrom92 wrote:
Don’t have a cow man, it’s all just a bit of fun! Ultimately if you’re not involved in making them you don’t have to worry about selling them either, so it’s all good. I have no concerns about market viability.

Getting new discs manufactured could have some legitimate uses too. What about a new disc with test signals for servicing/calibrating a player?
Good luck getting a GGV these days at an affordable price… even more luck needed if you have one of the players that requires using the 8” version for alignment.


Thx Bart.

How many discs do you own????

Getting to the original question which has been asked many times, over 10 years ago if I remember about making these 8 inch video discs
when publus was on wanted to go in with someone else who may have had a lead.

Its very expensive if you can even find anybody to do it, going to pay more for the new discs than the older test discs.

But then again you do have people who pay more for new reprint limited edition books and other stuff then the original first printing stuff.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2023, 18:20 
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russellhines wrote:
Your idea of manufacturing new laserdiscs using the 5” CD-Video format is fascinating


Yeah, the lower the post count the more fascinating things like that are. This not the first time someone has mentioned the idea. I myself brought it up here, I’m sure not for the first time, many years ago. The most realistic scenario that we came up with at the time was hacking a burner to allow crazy discs to be made. This would require not only total mastery of the burner but also multiple workarounds to bypass the LD encoding process (which is normally all hardware). The resulting product would be trapped in CD-R format since there would be no way to reproduce it from a disc like that.

The original way of doing it would still work if not for the fact that all the techs and engineers have retired or passed on and all the plants have either shut down or completely remodeled at least once if not three times since CDV crapped out in the early/mid 90s.

One thing is for sure, your first effort won’t succeed so if you’re trying to make CD-R work that’s one thing but you will go broke very quickly “trying out” different things to get the format exactly right when stampers are like $500 to make.

Tempering enthusiasm even more is the basic fact that CDV pretty much sucked as a format. It doesn’t hold very much at all and it makes all but the most high end players vibrate like a paint mixer.

Don’t get me wrong, if I could make a bootleg CDV I know exactly what it would be. It would be Daikon IV opening film and the audio section would be ELO tracks. The Royal Space Force pilot film with some Sakamoto tracks would be second. In truth though I don’t think about this much because the path to success is difficult, time consuming, and expensive.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 30 Jul 2023, 13:09 
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rein-o wrote:
mrrom92 wrote:
Don’t have a cow man, it’s all just a bit of fun! Ultimately if you’re not involved in making them you don’t have to worry about selling them either, so it’s all good. I have no concerns about market viability.

Getting new discs manufactured could have some legitimate uses too. What about a new disc with test signals for servicing/calibrating a player?
Good luck getting a GGV these days at an affordable price… even more luck needed if you have one of the players that requires using the 8” version for alignment.


Thx Bart.

How many discs do you own????

Getting to the original question which has been asked many times, over 10 years ago if I remember about making these 8 inch video discs
when publus was on wanted to go in with someone else who may have had a lead.

Its very expensive if you can even find anybody to do it, going to pay more for the new discs than the older test discs.

But then again you do have people who pay more for new reprint limited edition books and other stuff then the original first printing stuff.




Total LD releases, roughly 50… LDDB collection is at 54 though some things have come and gone over the years, some things aren’t documented on LDDB at all (March 1977 discovision prototype comes to mind) but it’s somewhere in that neighborhood. I’ll link to my collection here!

I am fully expecting the cost of glass mastering to be astronomical (relative to a typical CD run) but thankfully once the metal parts exist, the discs would be incredibly cheap to stamp out. So I wouldn’t see the retail cost of a disc ballooning to like, $50 or anything like that.
I see it being attractive to artists, particularly ones already with a sort of retro aesthetic. Many of whom are already selling collectible limited CD singles as “merch” at rather inflated prices. Here’s an authentic retro-cool format, you still get the music, and if you have an old LD machine you also get to unlock a legit analog music video. Old school cool at its finest.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 30 Jul 2023, 13:19 
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signofzeta wrote:
russellhines wrote:
Your idea of manufacturing new laserdiscs using the 5” CD-Video format is fascinating


Yeah, the lower the post count the more fascinating things like that are. This not the first time someone has mentioned the idea. I myself brought it up here, I’m sure not for the first time, many years ago. The most realistic scenario that we came up with at the time was hacking a burner to allow crazy discs to be made. This would require not only total mastery of the burner but also multiple workarounds to bypass the LD encoding process (which is normally all hardware). The resulting product would be trapped in CD-R format since there would be no way to reproduce it from a disc like that.

The original way of doing it would still work if not for the fact that all the techs and engineers have retired or passed on and all the plants have either shut down or completely remodeled at least once if not three times since CDV crapped out in the early/mid 90s.

One thing is for sure, your first effort won’t succeed so if you’re trying to make CD-R work that’s one thing but you will go broke very quickly “trying out” different things to get the format exactly right when stampers are like $500 to make.

Tempering enthusiasm even more is the basic fact that CDV pretty much sucked as a format. It doesn’t hold very much at all and it makes all but the most high end players vibrate like a paint mixer.

Don’t get me wrong, if I could make a bootleg CDV I know exactly what it would be. It would be Daikon IV opening film and the audio section would be ELO tracks. The Royal Space Force pilot film with some Sakamoto tracks would be second. In truth though I don’t think about this much because the path to success is difficult, time consuming, and expensive.



All excellent points. The costs of trial and error even if we did find someone willing/able to assist in making them… that’s intimidating. In an ideal world one of these replication plants would just be like “oh yeah, we still have the machines we can do it. Send us a 1” video master and a check” but I imagine it probably wouldn’t be that simple.
The idea of potentially being able to burn one-offs is also exciting though it doesn’t help that the low-level logic of these CD burners are typically very opaque and “blackbox” like. It would take some extreme reverse engineering by someone much smarter than I am.
Having complete control over drive speed is a must, I imagine it may also require a custom hardware solution to drive the laser much like a miniaturized LBR, it’s probably never going to be a computer-based solution where you can just drag/drop a video file and click burn.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2023, 16:30 
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Yes, we've all had this epiphany. Apparantly its your turn.

Anyway, all I can add is this little snippet from somewhere in the corner of the internet:

Quote:
harlock wrote:
As for recording your own CDV discs, the device you are looking for to generate the appropriate laser modulation is the Kenwood DV-3560 LD/CDV RF modulator. A few of these have surfaced on Yahoo Japan over the years.


I've looked on eBay periodically but gave up. You take the reins and see what you can dig up.

I like your idea of making test discs. That seems like appropriate and useful content that would fit in the limited space available.

Don't mind the crabby folks that live here, they're mostly dead inside anyway :lol:

Go do the impossible thing that everyone says can't be done....
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2023, 17:03 
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Yeah, we need more threads that start with “I’m going to make LD!” and end in crickets.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2023, 17:19 
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Sorry I was taking a dead inside break.

I didn't want to keep this topic going to much longer, want to focus on getting 8 Track getting made again
unless this has already been started and I'm late to the game yet again.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2023, 19:15 
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rein-o wrote:
Sorry I was taking a dead inside break.

I didn't want to keep this topic going to much longer, want to focus on getting 8 Track getting made again
unless this has already been started and I'm late to the game yet again.



I’m sure it’s been done.

While pointless that would be way less suicidal since 8 track decks were waaaaaaay more popular than LD and the players are very easy to resurrect or send through the mail.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2023, 04:50 
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If someone could truly do this, I am sure I could come up with a list of 500 music videos that I would pay US$10 each for on five-inch CD Video discs. I loved those discs when they were on the market. I have thirteen of the originals, I just checked.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2023, 15:50 
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Unlikely. They cost more than $10 when they were mass produced by the thousands decades ago. JDM CDVs were ¥2500. If the format is reborn it will only be because someone spent thousands doing it for even more of a loss than Phillips experienced.

I’d be the first to stand in line if the line ever ends up forming which I very much doubt.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2023, 07:33 
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signofzeta wrote:
Unlikely. They cost more than $10 when they were mass produced by the thousands decades ago.

That is a good point. Yes, I did pay US$9.95 each for mine when I bought them, but I guess I am spoiled by $12 Blu-ray discs and similar bargains in recent years. The Laser Disc market was an entirely different thing; I remember being totally shocked when a store opened in a new, huge shopping mall near me in maybe 1990, it was called Media Play or something similar if I remember right. The big thing was, it was the --one and only-- store I ever saw that priced all of its laser discs below retail list price. (We did have Tower Video stores here, and I think Musicland or its video division, and both of those did often have specific discs on sale often.)
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2023, 14:37 
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Its called Loss Leader, its amazing once you learn how they do it.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2023, 04:31 
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Sorry for going crickets in this thread - I have been busy producing and selling releases on formats that ARE still currently manufactured. So life gets pretty hectic, not much time in the day for talking in circles on web forums! It was a fun thought experiment though.
I would not expect $10 discs, but if anyone were to point me in the direction of any technicians or executives who worked at the plants which previously mastered CDV or VSD discs, I am more than glad to further pursue it. I don’t have any professional connections within any Japanese CD replication facilities that were in business 30+ years ago, so unfortunately I’ve just about reached the limits of who I can ask about this.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2024, 19:43 
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The 5” CD-Video format could be a cool workaround despite its limitations. I never really thought about the possibility of some old LBRs still lurking in manufacturing facilities. If we can track down the right places and people who know the drill, maybe we could pull off a limited run for collectors.
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 Post subject: Re: CD Video - who manufactured them/new CDV pressings possi
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2024, 02:44 
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Wow, this is definitely a tantalizing line of thought. If CDV’s in an actual present-tense scenario had a manufacture cost equivalent to that of the 7” record was back in the ‘70s through the ‘90s, then the idea would have a fighting chance. However, if this idea were to “grow legs” and become feasible, then it would make the market for existing functional LD players go nuts. Selfishly, I like that LD collecting is still sort of niche (although it might be on the rise, or I underestimated how popular LD collecting actually is). I like the fact that players are still relatively affordable, and that certain LD’s can be had for quite cheap. If CDV’s as an indie, DIY form of band promotion (or even a piece of fascinating “merch”) became popular, it could have the same effect that Taylor Swift has on Record Store Day whenever a limited edition Taylor Swift LP is pressed. Newbies would come in to the picture, which would be a mixed blessing, to say the least.
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