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yaffle2345
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Post subject: Re: Did any players have Dolby 5.1 optical (or coaxial) outp Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 17:05 |
Honest fan |
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Joined: 03 Mar 2019, 15:15 Posts: 93 Location: United Kingdom Has thanked: 8 times Been thanked: 18 times
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signofzeta wrote: They intentionally left it out of the players because back then the license for Dolby Digital was more expensive. They don’t have to pay Dolby for a signal that isn’t usable Dolby so the player only outputs a section of the raw FR signal and has no Dolby logos on it. The license fee is applied to the de-modulator or receiver with the demod built in. It's interesting, looking at the back of the Pioneer CLD-D515, this has, as you say, no Dolby logo next to the AC-3 out, just the text "AC-3 - RF OUT". But the DVL-909 had the Dolby logo next to the text - "RF OUT (AC-3)(LD)" - presumably the player, incorporating a DVD section, had a Dolby licence anyway - it has a "Dolby Digital" logo on the front panel pertaining to that. Which leaves the Denon LA-2300 as a bit of an oddity, as it proudly displays the logo on its front panel... I wonder if this was a mistake: Actually I think I read somewhere here that some Hi-Vision players had internal RF-DD converters...?
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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: Did any players have Dolby 5.1 optical (or coaxial) outp Posted: 11 Oct 2023, 22:57 |
Jedi Knight |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 6003 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1300 times Been thanked: 1114 times
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yaffle2345 wrote: signofzeta wrote: They intentionally left it out of the players because back then the license for Dolby Digital was more expensive. They don’t have to pay Dolby for a signal that isn’t usable Dolby so the player only outputs a section of the raw FR signal and has no Dolby logos on it. The license fee is applied to the de-modulator or receiver with the demod built in. It's interesting, looking at the back of the Pioneer CLD-D515, this has, as you say, no Dolby logo next to the AC-3 out, just the text "AC-3 - RF OUT". But the DVL-909 had the Dolby logo next to the text - "RF OUT (AC-3)(LD)" - presumably the player, incorporating a DVD section, had a Dolby licence anyway - it has a "Dolby Digital" logo on the front panel pertaining to that. Which leaves the Denon LA-2300 as a bit of an oddity, as it proudly displays the logo on its front panel... I wonder if this was a mistake: Actually I think I read somewhere here that some Hi-Vision players had internal RF-DD converters...? I’m pretty sure no player had a built in demod except maybe one of those private label joints. It wasn’t an issue back in the day. It’s not like now, where basically everything with an optical input can decode Dolby Digital. Back then only real home theaters that cost at least $2000 could make any use of a 5.1 signal whatsoever so the demod was just another box for childless uncles to add to their pile of boxes that they already love. NOBODY was running around with an LD player trying to hook it up to something and failing because they didn’t have a demod. That person is a modern development. After you got the demod you still needed a processor to turn the bitstream into six analog signals and an AVR than has six analog ins and also a subwoofer. It wasn’t all gamers and garage sales back then. Home theater was an expensive hobby.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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substance
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Post subject: Re: Did any players have Dolby 5.1 optical (or coaxial) outp Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 10:26 |
Confirmed Padawan |
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Joined: 16 May 2009, 18:05 Posts: 3589 Location: California, USA Has thanked: 28 times Been thanked: 328 times
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krbahr wrote: MSB did make an internal demodulator board but it required a separate output to be installed. I worked on a 97 years ago that had one. From what I heard it was a violation of the Dolby agreement with laserdisc and the option disappeared. I believe it had a coax output but I’m not 100% sure. The Yamaha AFD-1 RF demodulator is small enough that it should fit inside most LD players except a few tightly packed high end player. -Remove the AFD-1 circuit board from its chassis to reduce its footprint. Screw it somewhere empty inside the LD player. -Tap on the line side of the fuse on the primary AC side on the LD player’s power board to provide 120V AC to AFD-1. -Cut the factory RF output signal lead and internally wire the RF signal to AFD-1 RF input. -Wire the AFD-1 Coax output to the factory RF output signal lead which you cut on the previous step. -You can probably keep the outside shield/ground leads intact as long as AFD-1 is grounded/mounted to the LD player’s chassis. -This would turn the factory RF output socket into digital coax output. This shouldn’t take more than a few minutes with the soldering iron on the 2 tap points, a couple of feet of high quality coaxial cable, and a couple of feet of 16AWG AC cords. Now the question, what does this get you? Well, it frees up some cabling and a tiny bit of room in your equipment cabinet.
_________________ Coming Soon Derman Labs Anything Of Substance
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ldfan
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Post subject: Re: Did any players have Dolby 5.1 optical (or coaxial) outp Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 22:13 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014, 05:59 Posts: 1462 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Has thanked: 426 times Been thanked: 537 times
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substance wrote: The Yamaha AFD-1 RF demodulator is small enough that it should fit inside most LD players except a few tightly packed high end player.
-Remove the AFD-1 circuit board from its chassis to reduce its footprint. Screw it somewhere empty inside the LD player.
It definitely can be done and here once again is an example of one..... This is the board that benedictus used to offer back in the day.
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ldfan
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Post subject: Re: Did any players have Dolby 5.1 optical (or coaxial) outp Posted: 20 Oct 2023, 04:49 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 28 Jun 2014, 05:59 Posts: 1462 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Has thanked: 426 times Been thanked: 537 times
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krbahr wrote: Only drawback is that you have to use one cable digital cable for the digital out and a separate cable for the AC-3 out, this means it takes up two digital inputs on your processor. Yup…. That was a bit of the pain I had to deal with after I did the mod. To remedy it, I was using an S/PDIF splitter with a coax/optical input and coax/optical output that made it easier to deal with input switching but I wasn’t liking having to manually switch it all the time. I decided now to just use my AC3-RF Processor that has one AC3-RF and four Digital inputs as a switcher for my dual player set-up. It’s now the ultimate twin player couch potato set-up for AC3, DTS, and PCM.
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chrisw6atv
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Post subject: Re: Did any players have Dolby 5.1 optical (or coaxial) outp Posted: 23 Oct 2023, 21:11 |
Honest fan |
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Joined: 28 Sep 2023, 06:27 Posts: 92 Location: United States Has thanked: 37 times Been thanked: 28 times
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substance wrote: The Yamaha AFD-1 RF demodulator is small enough that it should fit inside most LD players except a few tightly packed high end player. This is an interesting idea. I also thought about building my own demodulator; I am an RF guy, so I should know the basics of such an item. But, I looked at the internal board in the other pictures/posts, and that has way too many chips, some with -way- too many pins for me to want to duplicate its function. If it was just some AGC/limiting and FM/phase detection to baseband, maybe, but this is obviously way beyond that.
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kris
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Post subject: Re: Did any players have Dolby 5.1 optical (or coaxial) outp Posted: 01 Nov 2023, 17:32 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006, 19:08 Posts: 1181 Location: Belgium Has thanked: 47 times Been thanked: 32 times
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I remember bringing in my cld-1950 at the time to have the ac-3rf out added. Left the player in the shop for some hours and went ld shopping elsewhere Sure enough picking up the player you got robbed once again by paying for Clear and present danger and the much needed sony demodulator That was a 600 euro day back then
_________________ CLD-D925 RFD-1 CLD-99 elite Lexicon LDD-1 SR-7015 RMB-1585 DP-UB820 TX-58DX780E
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laserfanhld-gb
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Post subject: Re: Did any players have Dolby 5.1 optical (or coaxial) outp Posted: 01 Nov 2023, 17:54 |
Advanced fan |
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Joined: 28 Jun 2019, 18:26 Posts: 569 Location: UK Has thanked: 258 times Been thanked: 237 times
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kris wrote: I remember bringing in my cld-1950 at the time to have the ac-3rf out added. Left the player in the shop for some hours and went ld shopping elsewhere Sure enough picking up the player you got robbed once again by paying for Clear and present danger and the much needed sony demodulator That was a 600 euro day back then And that sounds virtually identical to my experience back in the day too (around 1996/97?) only next door to you in the UK and with my original cld-2950. Crazy money really! That’s got me thinking now, how much were they asking for the Sony demodulator back then, as I don’t think the cost of that was too bad compared to that of the actual player mods and ac3 discs?
_________________ Pioneer HLD-X9/CLD-925/CLD-2950 OPPO BDP-105D EU ARCAM AVR-600 JVC DLA-X7000BE Lumagen Radiance 2144
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kris
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Post subject: Re: Did any players have Dolby 5.1 optical (or coaxial) outp Posted: 01 Nov 2023, 18:53 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006, 19:08 Posts: 1181 Location: Belgium Has thanked: 47 times Been thanked: 32 times
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laserfanhld-gb wrote: kris wrote: I remember bringing in my cld-1950 at the time to have the ac-3rf out added. Left the player in the shop for some hours and went ld shopping elsewhere Sure enough picking up the player you got robbed once again by paying for Clear and present danger and the much needed sony demodulator That was a 600 euro day back then And that sounds virtually identical to my experience back in the day too (around 1996/97?) only next door to you in the UK and with my original cld-2950. Crazy money really! That’s got me thinking now, how much were they asking for the Sony demodulator back then, as I don’t think the cost of that was too bad compared to that of the actual player mods and ac3 discs? It was the day the first ac-3 ld reached Antwerp! Clear and present danger People were waiting outside the shop to get their hands on it The ac-3rf mod was about 200 euro in today’s money. The sony mod-rf1 demodulator was about 185 euro Clear and present danger most likely around 55 euro … not to mention the much needed “decent high end” cabling that you “needed” I have no regrets. It was great fun back in those days. Getting a movie early while everyone was waiting for the vhs Those were the days of collecting. These days it’s all crap similar “collector’s” editions If you also had one of those dts shopping bags afterwards… you sure were setup for life
_________________ CLD-D925 RFD-1 CLD-99 elite Lexicon LDD-1 SR-7015 RMB-1585 DP-UB820 TX-58DX780E
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laserfanhld-gb
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Post subject: Re: Did any players have Dolby 5.1 optical (or coaxial) outp Posted: 01 Nov 2023, 19:41 |
Advanced fan |
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Joined: 28 Jun 2019, 18:26 Posts: 569 Location: UK Has thanked: 258 times Been thanked: 237 times
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kris wrote: laserfanhld-gb wrote: kris wrote: I remember bringing in my cld-1950 at the time to have the ac-3rf out added. Left the player in the shop for some hours and went ld shopping elsewhere Sure enough picking up the player you got robbed once again by paying for Clear and present danger and the much needed sony demodulator That was a 600 euro day back then And that sounds virtually identical to my experience back in the day too (around 1996/97?) only next door to you in the UK and with my original cld-2950. Crazy money really! That’s got me thinking now, how much were they asking for the Sony demodulator back then, as I don’t think the cost of that was too bad compared to that of the actual player mods and ac3 discs? It was the day the first ac-3 ld reached Antwerp! Clear and present danger People were waiting outside the shop to get their hands on it The ac-3rf mod was about 200 euro in today’s money. The sony mod-rf1 demodulator was about 185 euro Clear and present danger most likely around 55 euro … not to mention the much needed “decent high end” cabling that you “needed” I have no regrets. It was great fun back in those days. Getting a movie early while everyone was waiting for the vhs Those were the days of collecting. These days it’s all crap similar “collector’s” editions If you also had one of those dts shopping bags afterwards… you sure were setup for life I think you may have got in to the ac-3 capability just slightly before me then Kris assuming the discs arrived at a similar time in most of the Western Europe countries? I purchased my cld-2950 new in early 1996 totally unaware that the cld-d925 was due to be launched just a few weeks later - dealer never even mentioned this so was more than a little unhappy Thanks for the price breakdown, you’ve obviously got a better memory than I! But yes, absolutely great fun back then, and sadly those hey days are now gone for good - today’s streaming/sound bar generation just don’t know what they missed
_________________ Pioneer HLD-X9/CLD-925/CLD-2950 OPPO BDP-105D EU ARCAM AVR-600 JVC DLA-X7000BE Lumagen Radiance 2144
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grasshopper
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Post subject: Re: Did any players have Dolby 5.1 optical (or coaxial) outp Posted: 02 Nov 2023, 06:19 |
True fan |
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Joined: 13 Sep 2012, 05:09 Posts: 480 Location: Greenbush, Michigan Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 17 times
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There were some hand built LD players with built in "AC-3 Demodulators" inside the players and they had it wired out to Digital Coax-Out or Optical-Out. I would have to pull out my Perfect Vision Magazines to tell you the Company that had them. It was at the Height of AC-3 "1994-1995". (Basically, a Auto-Demodulator built in).
MSB had 1 or 2 players with AC-3 Demodulator built in.(Very rare) Clone of the Panasonics LX-900u.
A Company named "Precision Laserdisc(Europe) produced and sold AC-3 Demodulator boards for a very short time.(Before I got into repairing Laserdisc players)
(So, basically use the coax digital or optical out to your receiver and it would be Digital Sound, DTS or Dolby Digital(AC-3) pretty nice!
These Demodulator boards were used for high-end rare LD Players and high-end upgradable Sound processors and receivers.
I will post more details and photo's when I can locate my sources....
Hope this helps members Ei \../
Last edited by grasshopper on 02 Nov 2023, 09:17, edited 2 times in total.
_________________ SERVOS SYSTEMS: FOCUS,TRACKING,SLIDER,SPINDLE,TILT,TANGENTIAL(1984 BACK) TIME BASE CORRECTOR
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