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kris
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Post subject: Re: Big dilemma: Hi-End LD Players vs. modern A/V receivers Posted: 07 Jan 2013, 23:32 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006, 19:08 Posts: 1181 Location: Belgium Has thanked: 47 times Been thanked: 32 times
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laser_cinema wrote: Hello and greetings from Germany.
I'm also interested in this discussion cause my good old Sony 16:9 CRT is near its end.
So i think about buying a new LED or Plasma TV. But how to get LD and Betamax properly to the new TV ?
Buying an expensive TV with good scaling and deinterlacing circuits, or a cheap one and spending the money on
- an expensive AV-Reciever ( like the new ones from pioneer / onkyo / denon)
- an external scaler ( lumagen or crystalio )
or a DVD/HDD-Recorder (Pioneer / Panasonic) for doing the job ?
I know it's a difficult question but i hope to get a hint from the experts here.
Thanks in advance After much trial and experimenting with different equipment I found that a simple de-interlacer such like an Iscan pro can do the trick. Upscaling to 1080 or 720 resolution is not always the best option since it makes the picture looking "digitalized" I run composite to the Iscanpro then output component to my lcd display. Stable picture and the tv does the rest. Sure different equipment makes several results... It's somewhat of a trial to find out whatever you personally like. I never owned a pioneer Kuro and have no intention of getting one but i'm sure with "moderate" equipment you can achieve amazing results. I never went back to crt for ld once I watched them de-interlaced trough a small little wonder like the Iscan pro unit that can be found dead cheap btw.
_________________ CLD-D925 RFD-1 CLD-99 elite Lexicon LDD-1 SR-7015 RMB-1585 DP-UB820 TX-58DX780E
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seroxx
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Post subject: Re: Big dilemma: Hi-End LD Players vs. modern A/V receivers Posted: 08 Jan 2013, 12:37 |
Honest fan |
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Joined: 30 Apr 2012, 01:54 Posts: 84 Location: Switzerland Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 1 time
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Ok, this one is from Speakers / Displays forum. He describes the usage of QDeo upscailer in an Onkyo AVR. The same one you may find in new Pioneer AVR's. viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2070It sounds very convincing.
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lizardkingjr
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Post subject: Re: Big dilemma: Hi-End LD Players vs. modern A/V receivers Posted: 09 Jan 2013, 00:18 |
True fan |
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 02:04 Posts: 300 Location: United States Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 1 time
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rchiffelle wrote: Check the Panasonic LX-900 vs LX-600 thread, I run the composite into an Onkyo 1009 then at 480p out to a Mitsu DLP (HDMI), and it works very nice, the PQ (vs DVD) is only limited by the disc. I posted a number of screen captures of the Snell & Wilcox patterns for several different players. The only serviced model I have is the LD-S9 (Duncan). Depending on cost I would like to have both the LD-S2 and LX-900 serviced at some point since they both show good promise -and both received a beating in shipping (it seems to be a real issue for people to package LD players correctly). I finally read that thread. It seems that you are really benefiting from the Onkyo TX-NR1009's HQV Vida VHD1900 video processor. The newest models of Onkyo AVRs that have this chipset are: TX-NR818 TX-NR1010 TX-NR3010 TX-NR5010 The one-generation older models (TX-NR809, TX-NR1009, TX-NR3009, and TX-NR5009) first introduced this chipset. Nice caps! TLK
_________________ Samsung UN43MU6300 43" 2160p LED HDTV; Pioneer Elite LD-S2; Pioneer RFD-1; Onkyo TX-NR818
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disclord
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Post subject: Re: Big dilemma: Hi-End LD Players vs. modern A/V receivers Posted: 09 Jan 2013, 00:54 |
Absolute fan |
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Joined: 22 Jun 2010, 21:12 Posts: 1616 Location: Plattsburg, Missouri. USA Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 11 times
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rchiffelle wrote: Check the Panasonic LX-900 vs LX-600 thread, I run the composite into an Onkyo 1009 then at 480p out to a Mitsu DLP (HDMI), and it works very nice, the PQ (vs DVD) is only limited by the disc. I posted a number of screen captures of the Snell & Wilcox patterns for several different players. The only serviced model I have is the LD-S9 (Duncan). Depending on cost I would like to have both the LD-S2 and LX-900 serviced at some point since they both show good promise -and both received a beating in shipping (it seems to be a real issue for people to package LD players correctly). After Duncan serviced my 900 and also added AC-3 RF out, it performed much better. I'm going to have to eventually have him service my Runco LJR-I and add AC-3. My "spare" 900 works great too so I'm keeping it as a parts machine for my Runco and main 900.
_________________ Visit my site LaserVision Landmarks http://www.LaserVisionLandmarks.com
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disclord
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Post subject: Re: Big dilemma: Hi-End LD Players vs. modern A/V receivers Posted: 09 Jan 2013, 21:46 |
Absolute fan |
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Joined: 22 Jun 2010, 21:12 Posts: 1616 Location: Plattsburg, Missouri. USA Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 11 times
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elahrairrah wrote: Off topic, but the title of the thread reminded me of "Big Emma" the one-time Laserdisc seller and reseller. Here's a wayback machine capture of the site circa 2003: http://web.archive.org/web/200302011528 ... gemma.com/ Now back to your scheduled thread discussion. I loved Big Emma's - I got many of my rare discs there, like Little Darlings, for 9 bucks. And a huge amount of DiscoVision for 50 bucks.
_________________ Visit my site LaserVision Landmarks http://www.LaserVisionLandmarks.com
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elviscaprice
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Post subject: Re: Big dilemma: Hi-End LD Players vs. modern A/V receivers Posted: 09 Jan 2013, 22:24 |
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Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 23:23 Posts: 389 Location: Costa Rica Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 0 time
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Another option is to digitize material first in capture, although I would keep interlaced material, interlaced, then play back from computer by HDMI to plasma/LD tv, using 1080i. Options for superior capture are numerous, less wear and tear on analogue equipement, quick and easy library for playback, no worries about laserrot, can sell back analogue or digital material on the market to minimize space used for collection.
Either way, if your going to use a digital device in your chain, you will need to make adjustments for analog to digital, might as well do it first and foremost.
P.S. I know I've advocated this method before but I'm sure there are others new reading this that appreciate all options to be mentioned.
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disclord
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Post subject: Re: Big dilemma: Hi-End LD Players vs. modern A/V receivers Posted: 09 Jan 2013, 23:38 |
Absolute fan |
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Joined: 22 Jun 2010, 21:12 Posts: 1616 Location: Plattsburg, Missouri. USA Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 11 times
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For late era discs, I think you need the very best player for the initial capture - one with the most extended, flattest frequency response and lowest noise, both luma and chroma. Most players do not fit that bill. Even Pioneer's later players with the extensive digital video processing, while having low luma noise have a soft picture and rolled off frequency response. Since the adjustable NR in Pioneers later players is 3D temporal based, it shouldn't be used during capture because it can wreck havoc with later processing and deinterlacing that is also temporal.
Honestly, I've found that the best copies to DVD are when I use my top-loading LD-1100, which has no noise reduction or my LD-700 clone from Sony, the industrial LDP-150 which also has no NR. Both create superb disc transfers. The LX-900 with NR off and the EAD TheaterVision/CLD-99 with NR off also make excellent players for disc transfers due to their low noise. For discs with any kind of speckling I use the LD-1100 because it has both a smaller beam spot from the red tube laser and it has only 4.2MHz frequency response so very high frequency drop outs and speckles simply do not get reproduced. With early discs that only have 330 lines of resolution encoded on them, there's no reason to use a player with greater frequency response that just uncovers high frequency disc noise.
_________________ Visit my site LaserVision Landmarks http://www.LaserVisionLandmarks.com
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elviscaprice
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Post subject: Re: Big dilemma: Hi-End LD Players vs. modern A/V receivers Posted: 09 Jan 2013, 23:51 |
True fan |
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Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 23:23 Posts: 389 Location: Costa Rica Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 0 time
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disclord wrote: For late era discs, I think you need the very best player for the initial capture - one with the most extended, flattest frequency response and lowest noise, both luma and chroma. Most players do not fit that bill. Even Pioneer's later players with the extensive digital video processing, while having low luma noise have a soft picture and rolled off frequency response. Since the adjustable NR in Pioneers later players is 3D temporal based, it shouldn't be used during capture because it can wreck havoc with later processing and deinterlacing that is also temporal.
Honestly, I've found that the best copies to DVD are when I use my top-loading LD-1100, which has no noise reduction or my LD-700 clone from Sony, the industrial LDP-150 which also has no NR. Both create superb disc transfers. The LX-900 with NR off and the EAD TheaterVision/CLD-99 with NR off also make excellent players for disc transfers due to their low noise. For discs with any kind of speckling I use the LD-1100 because it has both a smaller beam spot from the red tube laser and it has only 4.2MHz frequency response so very high frequency drop outs and speckles simply do not get reproduced. With early discs that only have 330 lines of resolution encoded on them, there's no reason to use a player with greater frequency response that just uncovers high frequency disc noise. Good info, disclord. Although I am not an advocate for deinterlacing. I prefer to process the material while interlaced in Adobe Premiere and find the Neat Video add on a fantastic solution for removing surface noise and preparing the video for compression. But first try and get the most detailed capture possible, this is the biggy as you suggest with different preferences of players, what capture device or card can also have a huge impact.
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elviscaprice
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Post subject: Re: Big dilemma: Hi-End LD Players vs. modern A/V receivers Posted: 10 Jan 2013, 00:26 |
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Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 23:23 Posts: 389 Location: Costa Rica Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 0 time
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disclord wrote: Elviscaprice; How much is Premiere with the Neat Video add on? I'd like something that can reduce disc luma and chroma noise without smearing or destroying the image but I'm quite limited on funds. You can get the Neat Video add on for $50 they have one for your vegas software or else definitely for stand alone. Otherwise the Premiere 6.0 is over a grand without any previous version key upgrade ability which then would run about $300. wink wink http://www.neatvideo.com/
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elviscaprice
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Post subject: Re: Big dilemma: Hi-End LD Players vs. modern A/V receivers Posted: 10 Jan 2013, 01:42 |
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Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 23:23 Posts: 389 Location: Costa Rica Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 0 time
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I don't know, that Neat Video plug in works great for noise with a periodic pattern, is fantastic on VHS captures lossless. Sometimes I can goose out a better picture with many already compressed videos but it's limited in effectiveness. For your issues of chroma and luma noise it is limited, just depends on the pattern. Sometimes it works well on compressed artifacts, especially in the blacks. It's really a hit and miss plug in but overall I find it invaluable and many times over worth the $50 for the home plug in. It will soften the image somewhat, so getting the sharpest capture is huge. But you can also use the software to sharpen the image after your done building the profile. Prepares the lossless analogue capture perfectly for a DVD or BR compression. Makes a huge difference with or without when viewing on a digital television from the computer HDMI.
One other thing we didn't cover is the sound capture. I can't recommend enough a separate capture, when available, of the digital sound through a DAC into Audacity. Then match up the analogue capture to the digital capture and replace (having normalized the sound). Even for VHS/LD, to capture the analogue sound with the separate DAC into Audacity digital makes a huge difference in quality.
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