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 Post subject: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2013, 17:16 
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I own various editions of Terminator 2, one of the few movies I really could watch each week and still enjoy it.
All these versions have their advantages and drawbacks.

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From left to right, 1st row
- USA Extended THX Release [LD 82997-2WS] : Great LD, but no CC, so I'll choose the Japanese edition, with LD-G
- Japan 1st SQZ/AC3 Release [PILF-2187] : Again, great LD, good SQZ picture quality, but no CC nor LD-G, so I'll choose the 2nd edition.
- Japan 2nd SQZ/AC3 THX Release [PILF-2555] : Perfect LD. From far the best version on Laserdisc ever.
- USA AC3 THX Release [LD68952-2DD] : Great LD, but inferior to the 2nd SQZ japanese version.

2nd row
- Japan 8" making of [PIMF-1001] : Just for the fun of owning a 8" LD with some stuff about T2 on it !
- Japan Hi-Vision A-Mode Release [PILH-1001] : Good Hi-Vision release, but picture seems to be inferior to the 2nd SQZ japanese version.
- Japan Extended THX Release [PILF-1800] : Great & solid box set. Extended Version with LD-G.

So what I'll try to do here is a comparison between:
Standard [LD68952-2DD], SQZ [PILF-2555] & Hi-Vision [PILH-1001]

I've always wanted to do it, I'll just need some time, but I think it could be interesting for those out there with interest for the odd LD formats.

I start with the Hi-Vision release, to raise the bar a little high and see if the other version can still compete with it.

A simple but still beautiful packaging, with a double digipak holding the 2 discs.
This version has both A-Mode 3.1 and Dolby Surround EFM Tracks.

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The SQZ version is also very classy with it's black top obi perfectly matching the cover.
It offers Dolby Digital, CC & LD-G and a very good picture quality.

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I've tried to find some scenes that I will compare between the 3 version.
1st picture = Hi-Vi
2nd picture = SQZ
3rd Picture = Standard



Scene A - Opening

Hi-Vi: Picture quality is good, but not great.

SQZ: Great picture quality, maybe inferior in definition than the Hi-Vision one, but it moves better.

Standard: [...]

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Scene B - Arrival

Hi-Vi: Mostly in the dark, here also, we have a good picture but not surprisingly great.

SQZ: Dark scenes are not a problem for the SQZ version, no visible quality loss like with the HiVi. Picture seems to be blue when compared to the grey of the Hi-Vi.

Standard: [...]

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Scene C - Scanning

Hi-Vi: As the background is not looking great and seems to be a little blurry, the foreground with all the terminator Data is always clear and perfectly readable.

SQZ: Lower resolution as the HiVi picture, but still very good. Here we can cleary see that SQZ has a wider AR than Hi-Vi. See Picture 5 for example.

Standard: [...]

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Scene D - John

Hi-Vi: Daylight = Better picture quality. The small computer "PIN Cracker" screen gives a good opportunity for MUSE to show off. Once again: if it's not moving, it's good for MUSE :D

SQZ: Here also, you can see that SQZ is wider than Hi-Vi. Pictures of the small computer shows it well.

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Scene E - Light

Special request from laserbite 8-)

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... I'll be back.


Last edited by takou on 10 Feb 2013, 09:44, edited 14 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2013, 21:30 
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Wow, that's a lot of T2! I recently watched the non-box set extended US THX CLV version you have above and was blown away at both picture and sound quality.
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2013, 10:43 
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I look forward to reading your findings.
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2013, 14:19 
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Also like T2 very much, have also many different versions, would like to add the following two :

the famous american box set Terminator 2: Judgment Day: Special Edition (1991) (Uncut) [PSE82997-6WS], I prefer the blue version :

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However the japanese box set is much nicer, has one addional side with extras and a gorgious thick booklet.
I have not seen the " T 1118 " marking on the silver or gold version.

promotional disc Terminator 2: Judgment Day: Special Edition Promotional Trailer (1991) [58-653] :

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This 8" disc has less than 3 minutes of video (only the trailer)

Advertisment in LD express 35 for the T2 special edition release :

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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2013, 09:10 
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Ok, I've started with the PILH-1001...
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2013, 10:47 
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Thank you so much for the Hi-Vision pictures! I am loving these since previously I have never seen pictures of Hi-Vision in action, the more reviews and screen grabs of Hi-Vision discs the better!

However if I may be honest the picture quality for what is supposed to be a HD format, looks pretty disappointing here for T2. It looks overly bright with a lot of ugly noise and strange colour tones. Indecently its the screen credit opening tittles and the "PIN" screenshots on the machine that tend to look decent, but the rest is pretty underwhelming.

On the plus side, the packaging looks awesome.

thanks again for the screens!
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2013, 11:05 
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I confirm that T2 ist not the best Hi-Vision Release.
But before making your final opinion on the picture quality wait till I post the pictures of SQZ and Standard release.
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2013, 11:12 
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:thumbdown: I'd never buy another T2. Whoever it was that did the telecine and the colourist needs to get his eyesight looked at.
takou wrote:
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It's the same lousy issues. The levels on this are set far too high! I didn't see all that green crap at the cinema in 1991 at UCI screen 5 and then again at small cinema Regent centre.

The same issue on first US letterbox edition and T2 SE letterbox and the DVD R2 and the lousy cheap bluray. I can't even watch the film, its that bad. I might as well have the TV switched off and listen to it.

A few months back last year there was a 35mm CDS T2 print for sale on eBay for I think £400.00?

If you look at one of the trailers it shows clearly how it should look if you know what to look for?

I took some screen captures off the R2 DVD a few years ago and does the Hi-Vision also look like this on this scene where T1000 is chasing them in he helicopter?

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What you should or what we should be seeing is blue and white not blue white washed out with sea-sickening green plastered all over the image. :thumbdown:
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2013, 18:07 
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So, I've took some pictures of the first Helicopter scene, where the same light is used.
See above, Scene "E".

And I've added some pics of the SQZ THX Version.
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2013, 18:37 
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I see it clear as day.

Its a shame no one more qualified was hired to see that a decent 35mm film to video was hired to see its all put onto video correctly as its decent cool film only let-down by a lousy video engineer and its the same recycled transfer that's been used over and over and over for home video and I've seen far better transfers of films like COMA (1978) that look like watching film than a cheap rated video transfer.

The Abyss suffers the same issue. and True Lies is even worse. :wtf: engineer did Cameron hire?

Don't keep you're fingers crossed for the bluray. Screen captures talk BS walks. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 01:44 
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laserbite34 wrote:
I see it clear as day.

Its a shame no one more qualified was hired to see that a decent 35mm film to video was hired to see its all put onto video correctly as its decent cool film only let-down by a lousy video engineer and its the same recycled transfer that's been used over and over and over for home video and I've seen far better transfers of films like COMA (1978) that look like watching film than a cheap rated video transfer.

The Abyss suffers the same issue. and True Lies is even worse. :wtf: engineer did Cameron hire?

Don't keep you're fingers crossed for the bluray. Screen captures talk BS walks. ;)


Actually, Cameron supervises all his video transfers - its in his contracts. Van Ling did the box set of Aliens - it was his first transfer and that's why it's so grainy. Other transfers were done by guys who are considered the best in the industry, but Cameron was always there, supervising. He even would bring in his own consumer set to see what it would look like on a 'normal' television. So he's directly to blame if you don't like the transfers. I saw the Abyss Special Edition theatrically when it had its short run and if anything the LaserDisc looked better. I also saw a true Lies in 70mm and the LaserDisc, while having too much edge enhancement, gets the colors spot on. My partner saw T2 in CDS and says the Blu-ray finally gets the colors right, unlike the earlier discs. Of course, only the first DVD of T2 from Artisan used the 5.1 channel CDS mix - all other releases use the massively changed 6.1 mixes. So I have to sync the original DVD with the theatrical cut on the Blu-ray to get the CDS 70mm experience.
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 01:55 
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I have zero issue with the Abyss special edition other than aparently the outtakes got a bit beat up before they were edited back in. The AC-3 is great too. One of my favorite discs.
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 04:24 
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disclord

I never saw T2 at the theater but I have seen it and have owned it multiple times on VHS, DVD and Blu-Ray, but by 5.1 channel CDS mix, do you mean to say that the first T2 from Artisan uses the sound effects heard in this orignal trailer for T2? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eajuMYNYtuY
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 09:12 
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disclord wrote:
laserbite34 wrote:
I see it clear as day.

Its a shame no one more qualified was hired to see that a decent 35mm film to video was hired to see its all put onto video correctly as its decent cool film only let-down by a lousy video engineer and its the same recycled transfer that's been used over and over and over for home video and I've seen far better transfers of films like COMA (1978) that look like watching film than a cheap rated video transfer.

The Abyss suffers the same issue. and True Lies is even worse. :wtf: engineer did Cameron hire?

Don't keep you're fingers crossed for the bluray. Screen captures talk BS walks. ;)


Actually, Cameron supervises all his video transfers - its in his contracts. Van Ling did the box set of Aliens - it was his first transfer and that's why it's so grainy. Other transfers were done by guys who are considered the best in the industry, but Cameron was always there, supervising. He even would bring in his own consumer set to see what it would look like on a 'normal' television. So he's directly to blame if you don't like the transfers. I saw the Abyss Special Edition theatrically when it had its short run and if anything the LaserDisc looked better. I also saw a true Lies in 70mm and the LaserDisc, while having too much edge enhancement, gets the colors spot on. My partner saw T2 in CDS and says the Blu-ray finally gets the colors right, unlike the earlier discs. Of course, only the first DVD of T2 from Artisan used the 5.1 channel CDS mix - all other releases use the massively changed 6.1 mixes. So I have to sync the original DVD with the theatrical cut on the Blu-ray to get the CDS 70mm experience.


BS I don't believe that for one moment. I was there when the films played in the cinema and they NEVER looked as appalling as these on consumer video. Its BS they BS us all later on with a new transfer BS! BS! BS! BS! BS! :twisted:

True Lies a colour fT%(k up on Laserdisc and DVD and oh yes the VHS.

True Lies looks like it was filmed in 5th rated VHS tape quality with it being crewed up in the machine. Its a load of rubbish! I've only seen it once in 35mm and it looked miles better than Laserdisc and DVD would ever be.
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 09:31 
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takou wrote:
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Just found out that the SQZ picture is wider than the Hi-Vision picture.
I'll compare it to the Standard Version also.

> The Standard Version is wider too, it seems that the Hi-Vision picture is cropped :thumbdown:


Last edited by takou on 10 Feb 2013, 10:02, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 09:39 
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It looks like a blind man telecined that to video. Its shifted on the vertical as well. As its Super35 one of the least formats I like. I prefer real anamorphic lenses used on films. Super35 make me :yawn: as they can manipulate it to look like what ever comes into that pea sized brain of theirs in 10 more years time. Its boring and I think Super35 is lazy poor film making.
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 09:46 
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So, I've just updated the first post with all the SQZ pics to compare with Hi-Vision.
Also done it for the "Light" scene, where you can cleary see that the colors are not the same.
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 09:51 
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Cheers for showing how disgusting T2 really looks. Buy this again from dishonest James Cameron on bluray again...NEVER. :thumbdown: I'm done with buying T2 for the T2 Cash Milking Cow. :thumbdown:

I see that The Terminator is getting a 4K release on bluay :thumbdown: well they can cram that disc vertically where the sun doesn't shine. I might only buy it one more time on LD with the que mark dots and that is it!
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 10:08 
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Thanks for adding the Laserdisc squeezed version shots for comparsen with the Hi-Vision versions! I will say that the Hi-Vision version despite not being very good still has more resolution and better colours and detail then the squeezed version especially evident in the opening credit tittles. The Hi-Vision shots are more crisp. By the way, is the squeezed version you used the normal one or the THX remaster?
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 Post subject: Re: Terminator 2 [*various*] NTSC/*various* (1991)
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2013, 10:11 
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The SQZ pictures are from PILF-2555, so the second one, with CC/LD-G and THX.
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