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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 17:51 
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confederate wrote:
The OAR for The Shining, Eyes Wide Shut and Full Metal Jacket was 1.33:1.

The original sound mix of Full Metal Jacket was monaural. Woody Allen was also shooting the majority of his films in mono because like Kubrick he did not care about surround sound.



Yes many films and tv series were shot in full frame but intended for widescreen. Are you sure he intended these to be seen in full screen?
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 21:44 
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I’m no Kubricker but The Shining looks extremely correct in whatever ratio that amazing $7 Blu-ray is.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 21:58 
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substance wrote:
confederate wrote:
The OAR for The Shining, Eyes Wide Shut and Full Metal Jacket was 1.33:1.

The original sound mix of Full Metal Jacket was monaural. Woody Allen was also shooting the majority of his films in mono because like Kubrick he did not care about surround sound.



Yes many films and tv series were shot in full frame but intended for widescreen. Are you sure he intended these to be seen in full screen?


I found an article here:

https://www.alternateending.com/blog/ku ... his-ratios

When looking at the comparison shots from Full Metal Jacket I can see that the widescreen release is simply cropped and doesn't offer any additional information left or right.

But the films were shot in 1.37:1. There is no doubt about it. Apparently insisted on having his films released in full screen instead of widescreen.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 22:35 
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signofzeta wrote:
I’m no Kubricker but The Shining looks extremely correct in whatever ratio that amazing $7 Blu-ray is.

The Shining is definitely intended to be in widescreen. There's no way a perfectionist like Kubrick would let something like the helicopter shadow in the opening credits slide, and it's only visible in the fullscreen version.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 00:04 
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I think one has to keep an open mind when it comes to changing technology. The audience for the art changes because only the final edited film stands still.

When a classic album is released for SACD or some other high res format a lot has to be done with the sound. The insane dynamic range is no use unless you expand whatever old narrow band classic rock archive they are dealing with. Therefore SACDs will never sound like vinyl and there’s no reason you should want them to.

So what about the lowly TV? If the director of The Truman Show wanted his movie square because that’s what TV looked like in the 90s then, while it is revisionist, doesn’t it make sense that now in 2019 when TV is wide that the movie be wide? If Kubrick shot all his stuff square so that TV wouldn’t be able to mess stuff up, doesn’t it make more sense to watch it on a wide TV that seemlessly blends with the wide movie? From the perspective of cinimetaic correctness all of this is one thing but...I guess it depends. The Truman Show was meant to take place in the near future but it’s now old itself...and in the near future we have wide TVs. Maybe it was just adapted to a square ratio for people watching it in a square ratio.

I guess it depends on if you are trying to put yourself back into the 90s to watch it or if you want it to still look near future. (Personally, with all that ST:TNG indoor sunset lighting I’d say it looks more like that past however more and more dudes are wearing those jazz beenie things now so...). I usually call it the Patlabor problem since that series actually lasted longer than their “...into the future.” buffer allowed them. That is, by 1995 they were already presenting an alternate present because previously they boxed themselves into it by creating a theoretical future and then us living long enough to see it while the show continued to be made (this also happens with Macross but WWIII and aliens make it less obvious).
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 00:20 
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I don't care what the director intended. If I did then I would prefer the special edition versions of Star Wars to the '80s home video releases. The special editions are of course what Lucas apparantly "would have done" and wanted.

I want the version that people, including me, actually saw when it came out. You shouldn't mess with history. If some hack producer forced some changes then that's part of history. The movie might have subjectively suffered from changes the director didn't want but maybe not. Whatever, it was the movie you loved or you want to experience as people actually experienced it in that time. you shouldn't mess with history.

I still want a theatrical version of Star Wars. I would buy that on DVD.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 00:21 
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I just watched Sorcerer from 1977, amazing film.
But this is the same situation. Friedkin said this was his preferred release was P/S in 1.33 but now the Bluray released widescreen is his preferred release.

So even the people can change their minds on what is the correct version.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 03:23 
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Artists grow. Many times their fans do much less. Sometimes they are just ahead of you and you need to catch up. Sometimes they shrink. Sometimes it takes forever to realize we are hero worshiping a hack.

The CORRECT way to see 2001 is in Cineramma. I haven’t done that yet so I have to make do with like...digital video, something classic directors never imagined. Small screens fundamentally change the experience so not even Marty McFly’s gigantic Sony will get you close to the cinema. “Color space? What’s that?” - Orson Wells.

Lucas frankly just sucks. If he was ever good, that’s one thing, but he clearly has no taste since the late 80s and the success of Star Wars, which was %90 the work of others, maybe more, has clearly gone to his head. He’s barely even a director, really more of a producer/toy pitchman.

I do care what the director wants to some degree but it depends on if it’s Kurosawa or Brian Singer, you know. Some people deserve respect and others have so much of it they’ve lost the capacity for critical thought. You have your Chaplins and your Felinis and then you have thousand of people I can’t name because nobody gives a crap. Anything Aaron Sorkin had a hand in will simply be set to the default ratio of the TV. At that point you’ve already sacrificed enough as it is and it doesn’t matter what the director did.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 03:27 
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forper wrote:
I don't care what the director intended. If I did then I would prefer the special edition versions of Star Wars to the '80s home video releases. The special editions are of course what Lucas apparantly "would have done" and wanted.

I want the version that people, including me, actually saw when it came out. You shouldn't mess with history. If some hack producer forced some changes then that's part of history. The movie might have subjectively suffered from changes the director didn't want but maybe not. Whatever, it was the movie you loved or you want to experience as people actually experienced it in that time. you shouldn't mess with history.

I still want a theatrical version of Star Wars. I would buy that on DVD.


So how do you watch Bladerunner, Brazil, Leon, or other movies where the theatrical version was kneecapped by hack producers and finance people and where it’s generally unanimous that re-edited versions are better? What about movies where the version that premiered at Cannes is 8 minutes longer than the eventual world release? Which one is the “original” when there isn’t one?

What about Touch of Evil?
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 04:03 
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Add "The Magnificent Ambersons" to that list as well.

The version that has been around since the beginning is no doubt still a great film but what could the film had been if RKO didn't step in and edit it their way from what Orson Welles envisioned. We'll never know since all those film negatives that were cut are long gone.

And for the most part, I personally like having the choice to watch different versions of a film. Sometimes a different cut can make a film better (e.g.: Aliens) or worse (e.g.: Return of the Jedi).
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 04:38 
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signofzeta wrote:
forper wrote:
I don't care what the director intended. If I did then I would prefer the special edition versions of Star Wars to the '80s home video releases. The special editions are of course what Lucas apparantly "would have done" and wanted.

I want the version that people, including me, actually saw when it came out. You shouldn't mess with history. If some hack producer forced some changes then that's part of history. The movie might have subjectively suffered from changes the director didn't want but maybe not. Whatever, it was the movie you loved or you want to experience as people actually experienced it in that time. you shouldn't mess with history.

I still want a theatrical version of Star Wars. I would buy that on DVD.


So how do you watch Bladerunner, Brazil, Leon, or other movies where the theatrical version was kneecapped by hack producers and finance people and where it’s generally unanimous that re-edited versions are better? What about movies where the version that premiered at Cannes is 8 minutes longer than the eventual world release? Which one is the “original” when there isn’t one?

What about Touch of Evil?




I'd always prefer an original run theatrical version but when that's not available then my ideal version of anything is the best laserdisc version. That's the version that those dudes with cash and taste I talked about before, the ones that I envied, had in their homes in the '80s and '90s.

I basically want to stay in that time forever. The best time. And it's definitely not just nostalgia talking. This world we live in now is completely f***ed up. Go watch The Last Jedi and see some of the reasons why.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 05:41 
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forper wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
forper wrote:
I don't care what the director intended. If I did then I would prefer the special edition versions of Star Wars to the '80s home video releases. The special editions are of course what Lucas apparantly "would have done" and wanted.

I want the version that people, including me, actually saw when it came out. You shouldn't mess with history. If some hack producer forced some changes then that's part of history. The movie might have subjectively suffered from changes the director didn't want but maybe not. Whatever, it was the movie you loved or you want to experience as people actually experienced it in that time. you shouldn't mess with history.

I still want a theatrical version of Star Wars. I would buy that on DVD.


So how do you watch Bladerunner, Brazil, Leon, or other movies where the theatrical version was kneecapped by hack producers and finance people and where it’s generally unanimous that re-edited versions are better? What about movies where the version that premiered at Cannes is 8 minutes longer than the eventual world release? Which one is the “original” when there isn’t one?

What about Touch of Evil?




I'd always prefer an original run theatrical version but when that's not available then my ideal version of anything is the best laserdisc version. That's the version that those dudes with cash and taste I talked about before, the ones that I envied, had in their homes in the '80s and '90s.

I basically want to stay in that time forever. The best time. And it's definitely not just nostalgia talking. This world we live in now is completely f***ed up. Go watch The Last Jedi and see some of the reasons why.



This I agree. Late 80s to mid/late 90s were the pinnacle of human society. The best cars, best music, best movies, best electronics. This was the end of the industrial revolution era and the most mature.

We are now in the infant stages of the industrial revolution 2.0 with the advent of high speed internet being broadly available. We will eventually mature but for now very short attention span for anything, fast change, disposable everything, and so on.

Newbies perhaps don’t mind because they don’t know better. Those really old simply have difficulty adopting the new era. Us in between are in struggle.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 09:17 
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Heh, yeah...the 80s sucked, guys. It may have been good for Laserdisc players and the sliver of society that even knew what they were but it was also really great for AIDS, apartheid, Iran-Contra, a bunch of financial deregulation that exploded stuff decades later, GM laying off half its workforce, two major nuclear plant disasters, the space shuttle exploding, televangelism, The Home Shopping Network, someone KILLED that guy from the Beatles (WTF), 34 people were killed by a vocanao IN THE US which is a weird place to die from vocano, there was a famine in Ethiopia that killed a million people, the first Bush invaded Iraq for no reason for the first time, China slaughtered hundreds of student protesters and still bans talk of it from their internet, CNN, Oprah, crack, U2, shoulder pads, the 1989 Pontiac LeMans...

I mean, I like Ghostbusters and acid house as much as anyone but it’s cool to have more than one computer on my block and really awesome brakes on every car sold. I miss some of that stuff but I’m not missing late period Columbo or 1-900 numbers so as long as I’m being selective I might as well enjoy the place where I actually exist. Here a decent video machine isn’t $1200 and recovery time from common surgeries has been reduced by %75. And we get to see whatever happened to that real estate dick from NYC. Go 2019!
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 14:38 
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Don't forget The Young Ones.

This topic is now brilliant!!!!
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 16:55 
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signofzeta wrote:
Heh, yeah...the 80s sucked, guys. It may have been good for Laserdisc players and the sliver of society that even knew what they were but it was also really great for AIDS, apartheid, Iran-Contra, a bunch of financial deregulation that exploded stuff decades later, GM laying off half its workforce, two major nuclear plant disasters, the space shuttle exploding, televangelism, The Home Shopping Network, someone KILLED that guy from the Beatles (WTF), 34 people were killed by a vocanao IN THE US which is a weird place to die from vocano, there was a famine in Ethiopia that killed a million people, the first Bush invaded Iraq for no reason for the first time, China slaughtered hundreds of student protesters and still bans talk of it from their internet, CNN, Oprah, crack, U2, shoulder pads, the 1989 Pontiac LeMans...

And if you're British, it gets even worse!
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 22:41 
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Police Story 1/2 getting a Criterion release. Out in April. Previous BD releases were really disappointing.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 23:27 
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gypsy wrote:
Police Story 1/2 getting a Criterion release. Out in April. Previous BD releases were really disappointing.

I just looked at Criterion's page and it seems they are also releasing a DVD.
I thought that Criterion gave up on DVDs and were just releasing Blurays, very happy to see that they haven't given up on DVDs.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2019, 00:41 
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There is definitely still a big market for DVDs.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2019, 01:55 
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There was something that I wanted from Criterion but didn't see it on DVD, can't remember what it was now?
And they only had the Bluray with no DVD, I wish I could remember, everything I see on their site has a DVD also release.
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 Post subject: Re: What have you been watching?
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2019, 02:47 
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signofzeta wrote:
the first Bush invaded Iraq for no reason for the first time,


? That was '91. He called off the full invasion of Iraq, many say foolishly, he just liberated Kuwait.

This was the best war. Reagans awesome war machine that had been built up to fight the Soviets and defeated it without firing a shot (Thank you Reagan, another awesome thing about the '80s the USSR was brought down) was unleashed and boy was it awesome. For a 12 year old war nerd watching at home in my school holidays it was the greatest thing ever, seeing all that hardware kick a**.

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China slaughtered hundreds of student protesters and still bans talk of it from their internet


Yep and our Prime Minister, Bob Hawke (back when we had real leaders who the people actually liked) sobbed over it in Parliament. He openly criticised the Chinese government, something that now just doesn't happen, because it's "racist" or something to do so.
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