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 Post subject: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2011, 22:28 
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Can anyone shed some light on this audio format? It doesn't look like it's used often and the only disc I own which has it is New Nightmare which I haven't watched yet. Would this sound the same as Dolby Surround 2.0 or is it potentially better?

http://www.lddb.com/list.php?format=las ... dts-stereo
  
 
 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2011, 00:08 
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DTS Stereo Surround is pretty much the same as Dolby surround or any of the other two-channel matrix surround formats.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2011, 01:26 
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All versions of the movie The Mask have dts stereo. I was hoping it would show on my receiver the dts logo, but no. And if I am right it is the same bitrate as pcm stereo, so basically it is pcm stereo. Same bandwidth for two channels. If somebody knows any technical info about it please share it.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2011, 02:00 
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DTS is the acronym for Digital Theater Systems, a company not unlike Dolby specializing in multi-channel digital sound. Inititally a theatrical sound system, expansion into home use began in earnest during peak LD production.

Although a DTS signal, mainly a digital version of a sound signal that's different from Dolby Digital, can carry a variety of multi-channel sound, on Laserdisc, it refers specifically to 5.1 channel sound, just as does Dolby Digital on LDs. So it wouldn't sound like 2 channel stereo unless you have only a two speaker system.

Most modern amp/receivers can decode the LD DTS digital channel when hooked up via a digital output, and have an indicator showing DTS on the display, IF you are switched to the digital input on the amp and not the analog. If you are on the analog signal or only have the RCA audio outs hooked up, you won't get it. Plus you have to make sure you have chosen Digital Audio as being output by the LD player.

As you probably know, for Dolby Digital, or AC3, you need either a demodulator or an amp that can demodulate the LD's AC3 signal, unlike DVDs that need no demodulator. Some DVDs have both DTS and Dolby Digital soundtracks.

As far as liking the sound, I'd say that's personal. I really like DTS, but I don't think it's much better than Dolby Digital. Some like Dolby better.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2011, 03:26 
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rixrex wrote:
DTS is the acronym for Digital Theater Systems, a company not unlike Dolby specializing in multi-channel digital sound. Inititally a theatrical sound system, expansion into home use began in earnest during peak LD production.

Although a DTS signal, mainly a digital version of a sound signal that's different from Dolby Digital, can carry a variety of multi-channel sound, on Laserdisc, it refers specifically to 5.1 channel sound, just as does Dolby Digital on LDs. So it wouldn't sound like 2 channel stereo unless you have only a two speaker system.

Except that the question was about "DTS Stereo Surround", not "DTS Coherent Acoustics".
"Coherent Acoustics" is the coder used to pack 5.1 channel audio into a bitrate compatible with a Redbook digital audio stream, allowing it to be put on CD or LD. (This was not the same coder used for DTS theatrical soundtracks.) "DTS Stereo Surround" is the Hafler-type 4:2:4 matrix used on the optical audio tracks of film prints that were accompanied by DTS theatrical soundtracks. It was transferred as-is to the audio tracks of some LDs of films which were released theatrically with DTS multichannel sound, but to the home market only in stereo.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2011, 23:37 
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It is strange that at the time there was no matrixed audio decoder by DTS for home video. I have never watched a movie in DTS stereo. Could it be encoded in virtual surround in mind? desinged for 2 speaker only system, such as tv sets. i remember early dvd players had virtual surround mode on them.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2011, 19:33 
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If I am reading this right, can the optic audio from a LD player be decoded by an amp to give DTS surround sound (if the amp has the DTS decoder)? I have a Sony MDP-600 with the optic audio port on the back and my amp has optic jacks for input. I guess it is time to do some experimentation.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2011, 19:27 
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I have this on my copy of "The Mask" and I was expecting it to hopefully show DTS in the display but alas no!
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2011, 19:38 
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dumbchemist wrote:
If I am reading this right, can the optic audio from a LD player be decoded by an amp to give DTS surround sound (if the amp has the DTS decoder)? I have a Sony MDP-600 with the optic audio port on the back and my amp has optic jacks for input. I guess it is time to do some experimentation.


I your player has an optical-out, your amp has an optical in and can decode DTS, and you play a real DTS disc...like this one...

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/09386/089 ... Hard-(1988)

..then you will get lovely window shaking, rib rumbling DTS.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2011, 20:41 
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dgtwoodward wrote:
If your player has an optical-out, your amp has an optical in and can decode DTS, and you play a real DTS disc...like this one...

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/09386/089 ... Hard-(1988)

..then you will get lovely window shaking, rib rumbling DTS.

You can play DTS CDs that way as well.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011, 14:32 
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publius wrote:
DTS Stereo Surround is pretty much the same as Dolby surround or any of the other two-channel matrix surround formats.


i think it is EXACTLY the same... its just PCM, nothing else.
correct me if I'm wrong, but that DTS stereo logo on The Mask doesn't do or mean anything i believe.

Or IS dts stereo really another format than a normal PCM digital track ?
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2011, 17:59 
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laserlord wrote:
i think it is EXACTLY the same... its just PCM, nothing else.
correct me if I'm wrong, but that DTS stereo logo on The Mask doesn't do or mean anything i believe.

Yes, from a digital perspective it's "just plain" PCM of the exact same type as any other Digital Sound LD.

The audio on it is what's different, & what the mark indicates. It's a form of "stereo surround", in which four audio channels are mixed down to two, in such a way that they can (sort of) be separated again. The dts Stereo logo tells you that the specific mixing technique used was the one used by DTS for optical stereo soundtracks on films released to theatres with dts digital soundtracks.
In practice, it's little different from Dolby Surround or any other of the similar formats, & can be "decoded" the same way.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 21:12 
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DTS Stereo is a 2:4 Dolby compatible matrix that was created to allow films to use a matrix soundtrack without having to pay Dolby a license fee. At the time, the Surround wars were in full swing and studios were alligning with one system (Warner and Disney with Dolby Digital, Universal, New Line and MGM with DTS, Columbia with SDDS). Paramount decided on a film-by-film basis. So for New Line, MGM and New Line, so they didn't have to pay a Dolby license, they would use DTS Stereo on the optical tracks. Again, fully backward compatible with Dolby playback equipment.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 22:57 
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Well, I did some experimentation with my Sony player and here are the results.

1) The LD used was Tank Girl. Now, I don't understand this but the DTS emblem is not on the jacket. Instead, there is a logo of "DTS Stereo Surround". Is this the right DTS?
2) I connected my Sony player's optical out to my Sony amp's optical input and played Tank Girl and got absolutely no DTS emblem light up. To check on this, I played the DVD of ABBA in concert in my DVD changer and selected the DTS sound and the DTS light came on on the amp.
3) I checked the manual for my Sony MDP-600 and there is no mention of any surround sound capabilities.

I think the problem is in the LD player and not the amp. The amp works fine for Dolby Digital stereo and Dolby and DTS surround sound coming from my DVD changer.

Are there any LD's with DTS that someone can recommend that I can try?
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2012, 00:45 
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dumbchemist wrote:
Well, I did some experimentation with my Sony player and here are the results.

1) The LD used was Tank Girl. Now, I don't understand this but the DTS emblem is not on the jacket. Instead, there is a logo of "DTS Stereo Surround". Is this the right DTS?
2) I connected my Sony player's optical out to my Sony amp's optical input and played Tank Girl and got absolutely no DTS emblem light up. To check on this, I played the DVD of ABBA in concert in my DVD changer and selected the DTS sound and the DTS light came on on the amp.
3) I checked the manual for my Sony MDP-600 and there is no mention of any surround sound capabilities.

I think the problem is in the LD player and not the amp. The amp works fine for Dolby Digital stereo and Dolby and DTS surround sound coming from my DVD changer.

Are there any LD's with DTS that someone can recommend that I can try?


Tank Girl has the DTS Stereo surround which is the 2.0 mix that's been discussed. 99% of the time when DTS and Laserdisc are mentioned together they're referring to DTS 5.1 surround which is entirely different.

Here is the list of true 5.1 DTS titles: http://www.lddb.com/list.php?format=laserdisc&list=dts
  
 
 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2012, 14:50 
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dumbchemist wrote:
Well, I did some experimentation with my Sony player and here are the results.

1) The LD used was Tank Girl. Now, I don't understand this but the DTS emblem is not on the jacket. Instead, there is a logo of "DTS Stereo Surround". Is this the right DTS?
2) I connected my Sony player's optical out to my Sony amp's optical input and played Tank Girl and got absolutely no DTS emblem light up. To check on this, I played the DVD of ABBA in concert in my DVD changer and selected the DTS sound and the DTS light came on on the amp.
3) I checked the manual for my Sony MDP-600 and there is no mention of any surround sound capabilities.

I think the problem is in the LD player and not the amp. The amp works fine for Dolby Digital stereo and Dolby and DTS surround sound coming from my DVD changer.

Are there any LD's with DTS that someone can recommend that I can try?

Quick and fast way to know if a Laserdisc (or even a DVD) has DTS digital surround sound is if it has this logo on it . . .

Image or Image

If it doesn't have THAT logo, it's not in digital surround.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2012, 22:00 
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Thank you for showing me the DTS logo.

I must have lived a sheltered life as I do not have any LD's in my collection of 99 discs with the DTS logo. The only LD close is my copy of Tank Girl and that is not truly DTS.

I guess I will have to keep an eye out for a movie with DTS just to test my setup.
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012, 11:32 
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I think the only way your receiver will pick up the DTS/DD detection logo is in the ac3/optical outputs and they of course must be digital and marked with the DTS logo as posted above or the Dolby Digital logo. If not then your receiver just sees 2 channel PCM and you can use one of the matrices supplied by that receiver to simulate surround.

blam1 wrote:
DTS Stereo is a 2:4 Dolby compatible matrix that was created to allow films to use a matrix soundtrack without having to pay Dolby a license fee. At the time, the Surround wars were in full swing and studios were alligning with one system (Warner and Disney with Dolby Digital, Universal, New Line and MGM with DTS, Columbia with SDDS). Paramount decided on a film-by-film basis. So for New Line, MGM and New Line, so they didn't have to pay a Dolby license, they would use DTS Stereo on the optical tracks. Again, fully backward compatible with Dolby playback equipment.


And yet this nonsense still continues. And it's all licensing or companies wanting to avoid it. I just upgraded my receiver to an Elite VSX-53. I migrated my older Sony 5.1 system to another room which had no HDMI inputs. I've managed to hold off as long as I could on upgrading my receiver because of what I'd read about HDMI. Apparently not all receivers will pass audio thru the HDMI or at least during 2006-2009 period. Not sure if that's still the case. I went round and round with someone whether or not you can pass 7.1 thru toslink if your HDMI doesn't pass audio. I said it can't be done. You need 1.) Blu-ray disc that has a 7.1 DTS MA or True HD 7.1 track 2.) Stand alone Blu-ray player (PS3 does not pass 7.1, only a linear PCM). 3.) HDMI cable from player to receiver, and 4.) Receiver that can accept audio thru HDMI.

So basically you need all that. If your receiver doesn't have the DTS MA logo or the True HD logo, then you're not getting 7.1 -though there are 5.1 and maybe 6.1 True HD and DTS tracks on some Blu-rays so the logo may not matter since you can pass 5.1 and 6.1 (I think) thru toslink. To confirm this I checked on toslink on wikipedia and they mention it cannot pass True HD or DTS MA. However the bandwidth capacity is around 125 mb/s so it is capable so it must come down to licensing or some other format incompatibility.

I played a movie that had 7.1 DTS on the PS3 only to find out it was down mixed to PCM. And what really boils my blood about Blu-ray is that they offer the 7.1 track which is great but if you don't have all of the above then you have to settle for the PCM, instead of just offering a 5.1 or 6.1 track in addition which would sound better. I have noticed on some Blu-rays they do this, but not all. Or if they do have a 5.1 digital track it's in another language. Now why in the hell would I buy a North American release and want to play back a movie in French?

Boy how I long for simpler days.

Oh God just print some more Laserdiscs please with uncompressed DTS!!!
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2016, 23:25 
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are DTS stereo discs made to be played back with NEO:6?
(i know it's similar to Dolby Stereo)
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 Post subject: Re: DTS stereo?
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2016, 23:59 
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All DTS-HDMA tracks have the DTS 5.1 matrix as their 'core'. All players will (and must) pass this core out the TOS or COAX Digital link. DTS 6.1 (ES) soundtracks have not been issued on Blu-ray to any extent (I think the 2nd edition of Terminator 2 has an ES track), but I've never heard of a 6.1 core inside the HDMA track - I suppose technically it is possible. There are a handful of Blu-ray players that can decode and output the 7.1 signal via the analog ports, but most manufacturers removed the decoding years ago. You'll only find the analog outputs on very high end units any more. The ONLY way to get the full DTS HDMA audio in digital form is via HDMI.

The way DTS added the channels to their codec is actually pretty smart. There is a "Core" 5.1 signal. Then through "extensions", the HD and HDMA data is added to the payload to "fill in the gaps" of the Core, and add the additional channel content as well. The decoders decode what they know how, and will 'mix-down' to your configuration as necessary.

And on your last point Tom, I hate to burst your bubble. The 1.2mb/s bitrate on DTS Laserdisc was still lossy compressed.
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