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 Post subject: [CLD-R7G] Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2014, 23:59 
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reposted from laserdisc forum

Turns out side B of my new CLD-R7G has crosstalk on side B on all clv discs.

I don't want to go through the hassle to return the player but this is a pretty big issue. It is under shop warranty, but it's not a repair shop and it's on the othe end of Japan.

I read a little bit about it, including that the R7G has separate adjustments for side A and side B, but I'm wondering..

Since it exhibits crosstalk on side B with every disc, if I can find where to make adjustments, couldn't I just make minute adjustments to the laser angle and offset until the herringbone patterns disappear?
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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 00:30 
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You could try. Just realize that any mechanical adjustment you make will be compromised by the tilt servo. Best to try the electrical adjustment first :thumbup:
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 01:35 
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thanks for the reply!

do you mean digital tracking or similar by "electrical adjustment"? (I figured if it was laser power, side A would have issues as well).

i googled around all morning but didn't come across any info on what exactly i should adjust.

the laser is on an epsilon U assembly if i'm not mistaken. would the potentiometers to turn be on the laser assembly itself? i don't have an r7g repair manual so i feel a little blind flying.
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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 02:15 
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If you get the CLD-D503 and D925 manuals from http://www.lddb.com/_misc/manuals/LD_Pl ... /CLD-D503/ and http://www.lddb.com/_misc/manuals/LD_Pl ... /CLD-D925/, it should give you a good feel for what needs to be done. It's probably more like the D925, just ignore anything that has to do with PAL.
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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 02:45 
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ruinatokyo, you were told in another post what model the R7G is after so check that service manual.
but double check that you won't mess anything up, also could there be any pioneer service around where you live to fix it?

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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 02:51 
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happycube, thanks i will take a look.

rein-o, i always took those "modeled after" posts with a grain of salt because i constantly saw conflicting info online. the purchase price for the player was about $70 more than i wanted to spend in the first place, so at this point either i fix it myself, live with the horrible crosstalk, or return it. just my luck!
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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 02:55 
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of course i didn't notice who it was on the other post that told me it was mechanically a CLD-D604 or CLD-59 :p
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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 03:02 
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In my limited experience with tweaking pots on an LD player they don't make much difference if any, Unless it is the video output level.

I think mechanical adjustments will certainly make more of a difference.

You could try moving the laser carriage up or down a little with your finger while it is operating and see what effect that has on the picture.

I have a Panasonic LX-1000 which has crosstalk on CLV unfortunately I haven't been able to do anything about it as no one seems to have a service manual for it.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 03:06 
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krbahr should know what hes talking about when it comes to players ;)
but no matter if you search under manuals there is one for the R7G under the CLD file.
but i just checked and its the regular manual not service :x
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Last edited by rein-o on 26 Mar 2014, 03:11, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 03:09 
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ruinatokyo wrote:
thanks for the reply!

do you mean digital tracking or similar by "electrical adjustment"? (I figured if it was laser power, side A would have issues as well).

i googled around all morning but didn't come across any info on what exactly i should adjust.

the laser is on an epsilon U assembly if i'm not mistaken. would the potentiometers to turn be on the laser assembly itself? i don't have an r7g repair manual so i feel a little blind flying.


The electrical adjustment is on the main circuit board. The pots are clearly labled for A or B side tilt.
Again, I wouldn't do any mechanical adjustments because as long as the tilt servo is active it will counter any mechanical adjustment.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 03:11 
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whitesnake wrote:
In my limited experience with tweaking pots on an LD player they don't make much difference if any, Unless it is the video output level.

I think mechanical adjustments will certainly make more of a difference.

You could try moving the laser carriage up or down a little with your finger while it is operating and see what effect that has on the picture.

I have a Panasonic LX-1000 which has crosstalk on CLV unfortunately I haven't been able to do anything about it as no one seems to have a service manual for it.


Mechanical adjustment might, but as I stated unless it's in the service mode with the tilt servo turned off the servo will counter any mechanical adjustments.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 03:15 
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ldservice wrote:
whitesnake wrote:
In my limited experience with tweaking pots on an LD player they don't make much difference if any, Unless it is the video output level.

I think mechanical adjustments will certainly make more of a difference.

You could try moving the laser carriage up or down a little with your finger while it is operating and see what effect that has on the picture.

I have a Panasonic LX-1000 which has crosstalk on CLV unfortunately I haven't been able to do anything about it as no one seems to have a service manual for it.


Mechanical adjustment might, but as I stated unless it's in the service mode with the tilt servo turned off the servo will counter any mechanical adjustments.


I guess you need a special remote for that?
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 03:18 
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whitesnake wrote:
ldservice wrote:
whitesnake wrote:
In my limited experience with tweaking pots on an LD player they don't make much difference if any, Unless it is the video output level.

I think mechanical adjustments will certainly make more of a difference.

You could try moving the laser carriage up or down a little with your finger while it is operating and see what effect that has on the picture.

I have a Panasonic LX-1000 which has crosstalk on CLV unfortunately I haven't been able to do anything about it as no one seems to have a service manual for it.


Mechanical adjustment might, but as I stated unless it's in the service mode with the tilt servo turned off the servo will counter any mechanical adjustments.


I guess you need some special remote for that?


Yes, a service remote. I think it's no longer available and when it was it was only able to be ordered after getting permission from the Pioneer tech department (as in you had to be an authorized service center). There were worries (Pioneer is paranoid) that with the service remote DVD players could be hacked for region free play.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 03:49 
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There was one on eBay, and there are clones about. I was going to play with a clone I got on Sunday, but then I caught a bit of a cold.
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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2014, 16:33 
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ldservice wrote:
Yes, a service remote. I think it's no longer available and when it was it was only able to be ordered after getting permission from the Pioneer tech department (as in you had to be an authorized service center). There were worries (Pioneer is paranoid) that with the service remote DVD players could be hacked for region free play.




i heard that it is possible to reset most earlier PIO DVDPs to other regions simply by entering a certain menu
and inputting a region code using any garden-variety PIO DVD remote. i was going to try it on my DV-37 one of these days,
since i've a single JPN disc to try out anyway...
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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2014, 00:37 
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I think we really need some kind of basic guide for alignment and setup of popular laserdisc players for people that don't have all the required hardware.
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2014, 01:01 
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whitesnake that would be great ;)

i'm going to try taking pics of the main board and such and figure out what's what tonight.
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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2014, 11:54 
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hey everyone,
thanks for the feedback.

i opened it and fixed it in 10 minutes.

10 degrees clockwise did nothing, another 10 made it worse, so about 25 degrees counter-clockwise and now zero crosstalk on both sides, beautiful.

i took a pic just to show how well-documented the main board is, a lifesaver!

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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2014, 14:37 
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Be sure to try out a bunch of discs. You may find what worked great for one, isn't so great for others and you'll have to find a compromise, but I'm glad you got great results so quickly. I always tend to make things much worse at first and spend hours getting it back to where I had it :D
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 Post subject: Re: Fixing laser alignment without equipment?
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2014, 15:13 
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This is a good success story for us amateurs. Can someone summarize what the symptoms of crosstalk are?

I gather it's the laser picking up a signal from more than one track in the spiral simultaneously and is only a significant problem on CLV discs, but how can one identify if from what one sees on the screen?

What LD player models have these electronic tilt controls and are they always as clearly labelled as in this case?
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