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It is currently 27 Apr 2024, 17:48
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nissling
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Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently Posted: 06 Jan 2019, 09:29 |
Absolute fan |
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Joined: 24 Jun 2010, 10:23 Posts: 1645 Location: Sweden Has thanked: 11 times Been thanked: 80 times
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ertoili wrote: Nobody believes the VHS/LD look that misty; anyway watch the blue color how natural it is (right) and how it is oversaturated on the HD release The more apparent blue color on the recent release is actually due to the smaller dynamic range. I am not familiar with any of the animes you've posted images from but based on what I see I think there's a chance that those old VHS versions are sourced from low-contrast prints which by nature have high black level as well as greyish whites and usually end up with muted colors unless properly color corrected. I did a small test with my quoted example in Photoshop. All I adjusted was the white and black clipping plus middle grey point. And as you can clearly see, they offer much of the same characteristics with some minor differences in hue. It's just that the old master was improperly mastered in a very basic way, which I believe was very common at the time. I'd say low contrast prints most certainly need to be graded in post though usually a telecine transfer is a decent enough source most of the time for that purpose.
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ertoili
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Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently Posted: 06 Jan 2019, 10:19 |
Advanced fan |
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Joined: 27 Jun 2014, 07:12 Posts: 560 Location: France Has thanked: 224 times Been thanked: 31 times
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nissling wrote: ertoili wrote: Nobody believes the VHS/LD look that misty; anyway watch the blue color how natural it is (right) and how it is oversaturated on the HD release The more apparent blue color on the recent release is actually due to the smaller dynamic range. I am not familiar with any of the animes you've posted images from but based on what I see I think there's a chance that those old VHS versions are sourced from low-contrast prints which by nature have high black level as well as greyish whites and usually end up with muted colors unless properly color corrected. I did a small test with my quoted example in Photoshop. All I adjusted was the white and black clipping plus middle grey point. And as you can clearly see, they offer much of the same characteristics with some minor differences in hue. It's just that the old master was improperly mastered in a very basic way, which I believe was very common at the time. I'd say low contrast prints most certainly need to be graded in post though usually a telecine transfer is a decent enough source most of the time for that purpose. Even with that adjustment blue and red are a total delta error in the Bluray
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rein-o
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Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently Posted: 06 Jan 2019, 17:02 |
Jedi Master |
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Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05 Posts: 8108 Location: Dullaware Has thanked: 1221 times Been thanked: 845 times
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nissling wrote: I think there's a chance that those old VHS versions are sourced from low-contrast prints which by nature have high black level as well as greyish whites and usually end up with muted colors unless properly color corrected.
So you are saying that prints back in the day of this quality were "low contrast" and were really just cheap junk we were choking down? Ertoli, I actually owned this LD at one time, about 2 years ago. Those SD images on the right of your examples are total BS and the LD while not perfect was NOT that horrible. It was NOT faded like pictured and this is just a total BS example to show others that people before a certain age were choking this stuff down because we didn't have any other options.
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nissling
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Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently Posted: 06 Jan 2019, 19:12 |
Absolute fan |
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Joined: 24 Jun 2010, 10:23 Posts: 1645 Location: Sweden Has thanked: 11 times Been thanked: 80 times
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rein-o wrote: So you are saying that prints back in the day of this quality were "low contrast" and were really just cheap junk we were choking down? Ehh... What? Plenty of films and shows have been transferred through Telecine with low contrast prints (that's actually a thing, not something I made up), and if you're not using the color tools properly you will end up with rather poor dynamic range in the end. The reason why low contrast prints were used in many cases rather than theatrical prints is basically because the high contrast on the latter will cause very apparent clipping in the whites or an image that's overall too dark basically. Even with modern film scanners theatrical prints are very difficult to get decent results from. In other words, a low contrast print transferred properly looked great on Laserdisc. If something was messed up or mastering issues occured however, the end result will not be all that pleasing. That appears to be the case right here.
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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently Posted: 06 Jan 2019, 23:28 |
Jedi Knight |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 5991 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1295 times Been thanked: 1107 times
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ertoili wrote: i appreciate in some classic anime HD remasters that the cels in first plane lose integration with the watercolor painted backgrounds, and they move a bit over them. (excuse my English:) Yeah, of course. So I don’t get why you’re complaining about it. Do you want them to scrub it out or do you want them to get into a time machine and watch the camera technician in 1982 and make sure he does a better job? They can’t reshoot it. Do you want a remake? I don’t get it. There are ways of eliminating these sorts of errors but then you irritate the people who don’t want their old shows Special Editioned. This is very invasive work to do and IMO in poor taste.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently Posted: 07 Jan 2019, 15:09 |
Jedi Knight |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 5991 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1295 times Been thanked: 1107 times
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gypsy wrote: Pretty much agree with movies being left alone. In particular b&w movies should be left b&w. Ten years ago I think most people would agree that colorization is pointless but...it’s starting to slowly come back. I’ve seen new colorizations here and there. Probably because the tech is basically automatic now and much better. I don’t think it will take off but it is out there. The only colorized thing I own is the Ray Harryhausen Box which he lived long enough to approve and also has the b/w on it. It’s hard to imagine wanting anything else colorized. RH was a master if there ever was one and if he says he wished he could have shot it in color originally and couldn’t because there wasn’t the budget then I believe him. He’s quite possibly the only filmmaker ever who I’d say his about. For the most part he made all those models himself and also did most of the animation and photography. Often times totally by himself in his own studio. He’s not speaking unilaterally for hundreds of dead actors and technicians he’s basically colorizing his own stuff. Anything else colorized can just burn.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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forper
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Post subject: Re: what anime's have you guys been watching recently Posted: 08 Jan 2019, 22:44 |
Absolute fan |
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Joined: 01 May 2016, 06:38 Posts: 2040 Location: Australia Has thanked: 334 times Been thanked: 222 times
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rein-o wrote: Been watching Macross Plus.
WTF how does this have anything to do with the original series in anyway?? Am I missing something here.
From the one Macross 7 film I saw that fits more into the series than this. Yep, it's an off-the-shelf OAV series based on Top Gun that Kawamori shoe horned into the Macross franchise. Impressive sequences in parts but is not in any way Macross. I don't consider any Kawamori-verse Macross to be true canon either. Macross ends with the Saturn/PC Engine games/Macross II in the true canon.
_________________ SONY MDP-355GX, DVDO iscan VP50, SONY KVHR-M36
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