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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2015, 11:09 
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Well the X9 arrived early last week and so I've had the chance to do a bit of viewing now.

The comb filter is pretty much as I expected, no real surprises after the S9.

Comb filter aside it certainly brings out some more clarity and detail than the R7G. The picture is less noisy than the R7G though not by as much a some might expect - as noted above it's still quite a noisy player. The characteristic of the noise seemed different to the R7G to my eye though. The noise seems more softened and more in the background of the picture, rather than being more sharply in focus itself. But the softening of the noise certainly didn't mean reduced detail in the image overall; watching a couple of star treks I could see more detail in backgrounds and panels than ever before and the subtle shading of folds in the material of the uniforms looked much better and more realistic. It seems to reproduce purer colours too, for example the purplish tones that always seemed to invade the red uniforms (and no amount of tweaking the tint would fix) were virtually eliminated.

However with some material (especially films where effectively the image is magnified many more times to fit the 16:9 screen) I would find the artefacts of the comb filter annoying enough to want to go back to the R7G.

So I'll take the advice from substance and find myself a DVL-H9. It's built like the X9 weighing in at over 16kg and apparently based on the line of players a step up from those the R7G is based on. What I'm hoping for is more or less the performance of the X9 but with the same comb filter as the R7G. (Would it be too much to hope for a less noisy picture than the X9???)

Most exciting though was when my first muse disc turned up earlier this week (Jurassic Park) along with a Victor decoder I managed to get for (I think) a good price - cost just over twice as much as the purchase price to ship it!!

I really liked it! Lots of detail, very low noise, nice colors, quite a 'film like' image; no comb filter! Just a first impression from watching bits and pieces of JP the night it all arrived, looking forward to some more. Just need to get a couple more discs now but geez those things ain't cheap!! (No worrying about obi's I think unless I score a lucky break!!!)


Last edited by audioboyz1973 on 01 Oct 2015, 14:15, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2015, 13:25 
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cpix wrote:
talking about 3d y/c-filters, i'm wondering what kind of filter is used in my Pioneer kuro KRP-500M TV, since its late 2000 and should be a "a lot" better than the ones used back in the days.

According to the the product brochure . . .

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox ... P-500M.pdf

. . . it has a 3D comb filter and is adjustable.
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2015, 16:08 
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elahrairrah wrote:
cpix wrote:
talking about 3d y/c-filters, i'm wondering what kind of filter is used in my Pioneer kuro KRP-500M TV, since its late 2000 and should be a "a lot" better than the ones used back in the days.

According to the the product brochure . . .

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox ... P-500M.pdf

. . . it has a 3D comb filter and is adjustable.


i know it's there and that its adjustable, im wondering what kind of filter it is, compared to the x9/r7g etc.
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2015, 04:25 
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Well I sincerely doubt Pioneer would keep using the same components after 10 years of innovation. If you can get your hands on a service manual you might be able to find what the actual Y/C separation circuit is in that Kuro.
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2017, 08:02 
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I love my R7G.

I recently acquired an HLD-X9 but I am not really that much of an analog videophile. I don't notice much difference except that it removes the white outlines to the right of color changes. As the X9 is a much more difficult beast, I keep the R7G as my daily player, and am happy with the quality on most anything above 2:35.1.
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 21:10 
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Just a short question here to the owners of this r7g player. What is the average price ob those, in very good condition with remote?
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 23:09 
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Haven't paid attention to the auctions for it for a while but around the time was looking for mine mostly in the range of 15-25,000JPY, sometimes higher (eg: all accessories, box etc) or lower (usually missing remote etc.).
Of course if you're going to buy from ebay expect more.
If you're looking to buy, probably worth watching YJP for a bit to get a feel for the current pricing (if it's changed).
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2017, 08:42 
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Yen is weak too so good time to buy.
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2017, 15:22 
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While I personally loved the R7G and think that many bashed it due to the smaller power supply and some stating that it had more of a DVD look.

Some stated that it was due to the smaller power supply giving it a different image, but I never felt that.

If you can get this player do so, the only drawback is the S-Video, you must run this through the S-Video otherwise you can pickup a 503 or type of player running
composite and you will get the same image with a slightly slower side flip.

Also in order to adjust the comb filter you need the remote, no other way to get around this. Without the remove you are out of luck and stuck with whatever
settings the previous owner had.
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2017, 22:32 
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Ok, so a price of let´s say 500.-€ is way too high? Location of the machine is nearly local, like 160Km drive away..which I think is positive, no damage through carriers if i pick it up personally.
I´m not getting the real picture here of this player, so it´s kind oa good player, but has it´s downsides, right? I have an CLD-97 and a LD-S1, is the R7G a step up ? Or maybe I really should wait for an x9 to pop up one day...
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2017, 22:39 
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While I've never owned a 97, I did have a 95 for a very brief moment and have to say both connected via S-Video into a top end CRT set the R7G was about 8-10% better.

So if you don't have the extra cash that the 95, 97 or other players will cost I would go for the R7G, I believe right now you can still get some parts but I'm not 100% positive.

While I love the S1 I was never able to do a side by side with any of the above players I have owned.
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2017, 08:56 
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I've never been able to compare those players.

What I can tell you is R7G < H9 < X9. If you're not too bothered by players that smear then the S9 goes between the R7G and H9, otherwise you might prefer the R7G although it's noisier.

Those who have compared the 97 and X9 tend to place them at a similar level in competition with one another. I dug out this post which I think is a pretty fair rating from everything I've read from various people; I'd just bump the the H9 up the rankings and have a personal preference to avoid any of the S9/99/704 type players due to smear:
substance wrote:
Pioneer USA

LD-S2 $700-800
CLD-95/97 - $300-400
CLD-99/79/704 - $200-300

Pioneer Japan

HLD-X0 - $3000-5000
HLD-X9 - $1200-2000
LD-S9 - $400-700
DVL-H9 - $400-600
CLD-R7G - $400-600

*LD-X1 is the Japanese version of LD-S2
**CLD-959 is the Japanese version of CLD-97

USA vs Japan players

HLD-X0 > LD-S2 > CLD-97/95 > HLD-X9 > LD-S9 > CLD-99/79/704 > DVL-H9 > CLD-R7G

*compared composite outputs.
** you can swap places for 95/97 and X9, matter of preference. 97 is cleaner, X9 is sharper/no smear.
*** H9 and R7G has better S-Video output than most but still noisy.


These are eBay prices and doesn't include shipping. You can find lower prices on local adds or auctions but generally these are the ranges most auctions end.

Picking your LD player 101

1- Check local listings in your country for the above players, it is best to avoid expensive overseas shipping.
2- Decide where you want to buy your player from. USA or Japan? Calculate which is cheaper.
3- Find the price bracket you are comfortable with from the above list. The players are listed from best to good.

i.e you have $300 + shipping. Let's say it is cheaper to import from the US. You are easily looking at a Pioneer CLD-95/97. Don't waste your time digging other players. For that money, no other player will come close to 95/97 in performance.

Note:
-CLD-97 is the best machine for the money in my opinion. And trust me, I have owned or seen them all.
-Buy the best player you can afford. Best/most improvement on picture comes from the better players.
-It is cheaper to buy a good player and be done with it. It will cost you more in the long run to buy/sell several low end until you reach a good one.
-It is worth to pay a little extra and buy from a reputable seller in working condition. A clean, well adjusted player should last you years.
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 03:58 
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I normally stay away from these conversations anymore but I thought I'd give my opinion. The only player I have not seen in the list is the DVL-H9 but I've seen the DVL-91 which is supposed to be same unit. My opinions are best on performance once I finished all adjustments for best picture performance.

If you want a player with less noise then the list about is pretty good. Comments are that if you turn off the DNR that defaults ON in the X0 it pretty much looks the same as the S2 but the X0 has the red laser that can help avoid crosstalk. Then the X0 noise levels are low enough the DNR actually makes it look really nice keeping an analog look. I've connected an S2 to my Pioneer Elite Plasma and turned on the DNR in the plasma and got close to the same look. This is really leaving out the older players like the CLD-3070 thru CLD-D702 and the LD-S1. I believe the 3070-702 would come after the 97/95 (remember the 95 was short lived as the S-Video or Y/C has a chroma verses luminance lag and the 97 corrected this). Now I've only seen one S1 and it is also low noise so it is around the 97/95/3070-702.

If you want a player with a more dynamic picture then the X9 is the best especially if you put it in HR mode but good both ways and the list needs to be completely changed with the 95/97/S2/X0 being low on the list. The DVL-91 and R7G do also crank up the sharpness with the S-Video output, the 91 composite is not cranked up, cannot remember about the R7G composite output. As I've always said if you have a quality monitor with a good power supply and the black level set properly the white smear on the S9/79/99/703/704 is not that bad but a little is there. This really tests your monitor and setup. I have never seen the issue like I've seen posted in pictures unless I turn up the brightness level on my plasma or analog test monitor. So, yes these units do have some smear but how sensitive are you to it and how does your system show it will help you decide if you want one of these. The 97/95/3070-702 have smear to a lesser degree. Sometime turn up the brightness when playing the X9 and look at the credits on a dark scene and see if you notice anything where the smear used to be.

So it really comes down to your preference and setup for you to determine what you like best. I do my repairs with the units connected directly to the monitor, no processing in between. Yes, I'm a person that prefers lower noise levels built into the design, not processed by DNR.

All these units are good units, this is really just a contest of preferences and how you use the player. I'm fine with rein-o promoting the R7G even though the 97 is my favorite as that is what he likes and if you have the same preferences as rein-o then you'll agree with him.

The key is to find the player you like and enjoy it.
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 11:49 
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"HLD-X0 > LD-S2 > CLD-97/95 > HLD-X9 > LD-S9 > CLD-99/79/704 > DVL-H9 > CLD-R7G"

this sounds suspect to me. but then i guess this is based on some subjective argument about composite output?

i am no expert at all, but i spent a full year researching LDPs before going with the R7G, and a few in that list weren't even candidates. the low ranking of the x9 is troublesome as well.

anyone can correct me if i am wrong but my research put the LD-S9 and CLD-R7G at about equal level, with the CLD-97, equivalent to CLD-959, below both the LD-S9 and CLD-R7G. yet that list puts the CLD-97 ranks and ranks above them.

Granted, I was more interested in s-video out, 3d comb filters, late manufacturing, double side play, etc., but still...
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 13:45 
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I think ruinatokyo you are helping illustrate a point that krbahr quite eloquently made.

Knowing just a little of substances equipment and preferences that would be based on composite out (he says as much in the post) with something of an emphasis on low video noise.

On my own personal preference if the judgement were to be based on s-video out only then I can't stand some of the motion artefacts of the Mitsubishi comb filter and I'd cross the X9/S9 off the list entirely! With most LD players (perhaps only with the exception of the R7G/H9) it's really not worth relying on the internal comb filter at all (my opinion anyway!).

Even if we were to each make a list with variables like that fixed I'm sure there'd still be some differences.
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 16:16 
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Hey guys, thx alot for all your help and replies. Everything is different now, I´m so excited, I´m getting an X9 player (price is 1500€) including manual, transformator and remote..I´ll pick it up later, I guess, hope that my quest then ended, haha..The R7 would have been much less expensive, but I guess it´s a once in a lifetime buy..
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 18:26 
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exinferis wrote:
Hey guys, thx alot for all your help and replies. Everything is different now, I´m so excited, I´m getting an X9 player (price is 1500€) including manual, transformator and remote..I´ll pick it up later, I guess, hope that my quest then ended, haha..The R7 would have been much less expensive, but I guess it´s a once in a lifetime buy..


hey bud.
you didn't go for the CLD-R7G on german ebay which was sold recently?
seller was asking approx €799 if I remember correct?

the X9, did you buy this player from Japan?
there are 3 of them for sale on german ebay
  
 
 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 18:30 
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The DVL-91 is just a 909 with the NR chip enabled in firmware... the DVL-H9 has the R7G's comb filter. It should have been brought over but wasn't. :(
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 19:30 
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My list and ranking are solely on the composite output. There really isn’t a LD player with a decent Svideo output except maybe h9 and r7g. Both thei mitsu chip in x9/s9 and nec in x0 has more issues than benefit. If you are serious about your video quality, you should avoid svideo on all players except h9 and r7g.

X9 solely as a ntsc player is far from perfect. It can play muse discs which is a valid point to choose it over 97. X9 has less luma noise and crosstalk than 97. 97 has significantly less chroma noise where Ld medium has the most problem. Assume 97 has no dnr as its junk. X9 has the best dnr on any LD player. On up to moderate settings I didn’t see any annoying artifacts. X0 showed blocking artifacts on even the lowest settings. I stopped using dnr on it but it generally does not need any dnr as it is already the cleanest picture without any. Its so clean that it beats the x9 on highest dnr setting. S2 is indeed close but still the picture looks a little different. Probably due to lower bit depth dac at the video output.

%95 of what you read online about LD players is either outdated or written by people who have no idea what they are talking about. Most of them have not even seen these equipment from distance but they talk anyway. There is also a whole bunch who has extremely biased opinions because they sank way too much money in their expensive player and they can’t get out of the Ld nostalgia. There is really a handful who you can trust. Up until I bought my X9 and X0, all comments were that they vastly superior to anything including DVD. I am pretty I was the first one to come out and say they are only slightly better than commonly available S2/97 and others. I even went further and ranked the 97 ahead of the X9. My most upsetting comment is perhaps no matter how much money and time you sink into LD, a $50 DVD player will beat it senseless :)
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-R7G Arrived!
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2017, 01:11 
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I agree with Kurtis, Substance and others who have posted great points.

Right now we are dealing with the super tail end of the death of Laserdisc and we have to consider what the best players are but also what are the best "working" players.

Someone who has a working S201 will beat any broken X0 player period.

We have to figure out that we are no longer in a day of CRT domination and in a day of no more parts.
When considering to buy a player for 1500 dollars, yen or even euro you must understand that the lifespan of that player is going to be very limited at best.

And my comments above were about using S-Video on a CRT and both being top of the line TV and player.
Now if I had to use composite I would take a 95 over an R7G as the R7G would be just like a super fast flipping version of a lower model player using yellow video composite.

For my setup now I have older players that I personally am happy with, are the top of the line, for back in the day they were top or top 4 but now they are not.

Anybody that is willing to spend the crazy money on players or discs I want to thank you as you may one day buy some of my discs when I cycle through them :D
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