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 Post subject: Re: Pioneer HM-D101
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2022, 02:29 
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The mystery of the jaggies solved. It's apparently due to the filter applied.

About the PDP-502R, there is a card located under the lid. The memory chip has cold solders. I have fixed a few by reflowing the NEC branded memory chip.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xSReH_HFgnB9pAPmMsK0cDu86gzAWmrT/view?usp=drivesdk
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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2023, 15:03 
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I'll be joining the Pioneer HM-D101 club soon -- fingers crossed the caps are not dead.

No remote, only tested for power, but it reached a price reasonable enough to give it a shot.

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Assuming it works normally I'll do A/B tests with the MSC-4000 (2x MUSE outputs on a HLD player and 2x RGB inputs on the R2144) and keep whichever seems the best to me.

The HD-M101 is well known now but the SD-D101 NTSC down-converter listed in some MUSE sites seems impossible to locate today.

Julien
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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2023, 17:44 
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It certainly looks a cosmetically tidy example, and I would happily love to be the recipient of one of those so I’ll admit to being just a little bit envious! hope it’s in good working order for you :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2023, 01:31 
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laserfanhld-gb wrote:
It certainly looks a cosmetically tidy example.


I'll start by removing the dust inside (the heat fan can only bring some inside and looks dusty).
And detoxit'ing the connectors that looks quite oxidized before anything else.

Won't be around to try it before Dec 2nd though.

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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2023, 07:23 
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admin wrote:
The HD-M101 is well known now but the SD-D101 NTSC down-converter listed in some MUSE sites seems impossible to locate today.


Got it. Typo copied/pasted from site to site.

It's a Pioneer SH-D101.

Image

Released in September 1992, the HM-D101 was released in November.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2023, 13:16 
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admin wrote:
I'll start by removing the dust inside (the heat fan can only bring some inside and looks dusty).
And detoxit'ing the connectors that looks quite oxidized before anything else.


Quite an engineering feast!

Definitely not a SONY design... but somehow doesn't feel like a Pioneer design either.
That would confirm the Hitachi origins.

While SONY is using a AK4319VM, Pioneer relies on PCM1700U for DACs.
Both are 2ch/18bit but I believe MUSE DANCE specs were max 48kHz/16bit?

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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2023, 10:34 
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Thanks for the update and very keen to hear your opinion when it’s finally reassembled and functional in your setup Julien, although I imagine too much of your time is taken up with this pathetic attack on the forum atm sadly :thumbdown:
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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2023, 13:10 
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laserfanhld-gb wrote:
Thanks for the update and very keen to hear your opinion when it’s finally reassembled and functional in your setup


Well.... I'm not impressed!

First I tried the MSC-4000 via a Radiance 2144 vs HM-D101 directly to the video projector.

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=> Different aspect ratio and different color grading, not a good comparison.

So I connected the MSC-4000 to the Component#10 inputs and the HM-D101 to the Component#9 inputs.
Copied all settings from #10 to #9 for fairness and tried again.

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Maybe my Pioneer unit is old/faulty/needs recap? I don't know. Sounds/Video works OK, MUSE detection is stable, etc.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I did all these screenshots on STILL frames from a HLD-X0. It seems that when you pause a picture, the MSC-4000 gets a sharper image than when playing and the HM-D101 is the opposite (the paused picture is a little more blurry) so these pictures might not give a true experience of the real differences when playing contents normally.

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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2023, 21:38 
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Interesting, I’ll have to confess that I really wasn’t expecting that outcome and during the time I had possession of a MSC-4000 never thought to check its image quality whilst in pause mode. So the HM-D101 does appear to be a step up on the 4000 during normal playback mode although not quite a night & day difference? I suppose its still early days atm and suspect you’ve not given up on the Pioneer just yet so will await further progress reports :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2023, 01:50 
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laserfanhld-gb wrote:
So the HM-D101 does appear to be a step up on the 4000 during normal playback mode although not quite a night & day difference?


More of a step down! The HM-D101 when holding a paused frame for a few minutes started having weird pink or green dots added to the video. Stepping one frame clears it.

Will play with it some more over the weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2023, 10:48 
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admin wrote:
laserfanhld-gb wrote:
So the HM-D101 does appear to be a step up on the 4000 during normal playback mode although not quite a night & day difference?


More of a step down! The HM-D101 when holding a paused frame for a few minutes started having weird pink or green dots added to the video. Stepping one frame clears it.

Will play with it some more over the weekend.

Julien


HM-D101 (and Hitachi HD-M20) has the Fujitsu MB861xx series chipset, so basically it's the same as (or very very similar to) a Sony MST-2000.
Or to Sony MSC-3000, which also shares the same chipset except the "time base" / "output processor" parts were replaced (upgraded? :-) ) by Sony developed ones, others stayed the same.
The DAC and ADC are also made by Sony in the HM-D101, video DAC at the end is the exact same as in MSC-3000/4000 (and maybe MST-2000 too).
MSC-4000 should have more advanced digital filters (nicer interpolation).
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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2023, 15:34 
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This is turning out to be a bit of a disappointment especially after all the glowing reviews from numerous users praising its supposedly superior PQ over its main rivals, unless as you suggest earlier several or more capacitors etc. now beginning to show their age?

I wish you good luck for better results over the weekend :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2023, 05:45 
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laserfanhld-gb wrote:
Interesting, I’ll have to confess that I really wasn’t expecting that outcome and during the time I had possession of a MSC-4000 never thought to check its image quality whilst in pause mode.


For last night tests... no more paused/buffered frame putting the MSC-4000 at an advantage but only nearly-static sequences that can be captured while in PLAY mode.

And the results are not obvious anymore, even maybe slightly tilting to the HM-D101's side.

I tried a rather "soft" movie transfer in Hi-Vision: Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) [PILH-1001]

First, let's take a look at the easiest screenshot: the pre-contents warnings.
Again the MSC-4000 looks sharper but look closer and there is rigging/shadows on left and right sides as if additional DNR had been applied.
(You will have to download the pics as the previews are removing a lot of details).

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On CAROLCO logo, we are again quite close with the Pioneer a little softer.

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2b HM-D101.jpg
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The sharper image + rigging is clearly back again on the SONY (look at the space between the POLICE letters), again it feels like an additional layer of DNR. Pioneer looks smoother but also has nothing between the POLICE letters.

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Same thing happens on other sequences: the burnt-in subtitles are showing rigging on the SONY and none on the Pioneer.

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5a MSC-4000.jpg
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Attachment:
5b HM-D101.jpg
5b HM-D101.jpg [ 471.44 KiB | Viewed 598 times ]


So... it really feels like the MSC-4000 is similar to previous generation but with added DNR?

Color-wise they are very similar.

In all honesty, I can see the differences when looking up close.
From a normal watching distance, I would be in trouble to easily tell which MUSE decoder is running.

The HM-D101 really has a Xmas tree of light on the front but it's nice to see the decoder detect whether the incoming content is A-MODE, B-MODE, 4ch (3+1) and offer 2ch or 5ch output via panel control.

Next round of tests: similar tests on a MUSE contents shot natively in MUSE video like Okinawa Underwater (1992) [00MW-0001] or Kamui of the Okhotsk (1995) [00MW-0012] and River Runs Through It, A (1992) [PILH-1006] which is supposed to have better MUSE encoding.

Julien
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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2023, 23:23 
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Having just viewed the screenshots I can see precisely what you mean, now I don’t know if it’s just my eyes but on certain shots the Pioneer seems to possess an ever so slight upper hand in contrast. It’s most noticeable on the Carolco legend, the black just seems a tad more inky and the white purer versus the Sony on the downloaded version?

I’ll be keen to learn your findings on the Okinawa and River Runs Through It discs as I have those two in my collection here and know them well; a final question Julien, how is the fan noise on the HM-D101?
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 Post subject: Re: [HM-D101] Just received
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2023, 04:53 
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laserfanhld-gb wrote:
a final question Julien, how is the fan noise on the HM-D101?


It is a little noisy but I'm sure it could be replaced with a more modern/quieter one.

The fan does pump out warm air when the decoder is running. This baby is quickly running hot, the fan was not a cosmetic choice.

Julien
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