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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 23:18 
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Dude. You’re hearing stereo. The TOSLINK on an LD player always outputs the Digital stereo track, it doesn’t matter what you chose on the player with the D/A/CX button. The buttton only affects the analog line outs.

I’m glad you like it so much because ITS EXACTLY WHAT I’VE BEEN TELLING YOU TO DO.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2017, 20:56 
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(Crickets Chirping)

Did I silence the people who say you MUST buy a Special AC3 decoder made ESPECIALLY for Laser Discs specifically, or did I find a way to do it without a special AC3 converter? Did Turtle Beach think retro when they made their X41s and made it so it can read the analog AC3 track and decode it maybe with a somewhat faithful analog-to-digital approximation conversion to make it compatible. Should I assume SDPDIF coaxial is a digital signal, and you can't use a SPDIF converters like the ones for DVDs and higher for analog devices like Laser Disc? If that's true, then the ability to read an Analog AC3 signal and convert that either directly into Dolby Headphones, or have a middle step of converting to SPDIF, Turtle Beach was looking to make their headphones the best cheap solution for surround sound and you don't have to worry about acoustically awkward rooms, cats chewing speaker wires, or surround sound setup optimized for the "King's Spot" and don't sound that convincing outside the King's Spot.

I admit there are faults. If I want to do both Dolby AND DTS Laser Discs in this manner, I would have to unplug and replug the 2 different standards' adapters. I'd have to do that for some DVD and Blu Ray players that either aren't consoles or don't have a converter one way or the other. Also, of Broadcast TV and Dish Network (not sure of other providers,) when they choose a surround format, choose either Dolby 5.1 or a younger cousin, or for older stuff, an older cousin. So I still need Dolby for TV, regardless of what other media have.

By the way, how was the market for Surround Era Laser Discs made? Were some copies of the same movie, just like Letterbox and "fits a 4x3 screen", labeled Dolby Copies and others DTS copies? Did some movies come in only one flavor. I know for some later movies Letterbox was the ONLY flavor. We had a a few "original Theatrical Ratio" VHS tapes. Never got a laser disc until people were firesale-ing them for DVD. Found Star Wars separated Trilogy (3 separate packages, not a trilogy 3-pack) One Last Time THX/Dolby edition with my Laser disc player and a couple other movies for $5 in 1999 at a yard sale. It was pretty close to the ONLY video store I knew that rented Laser Discs. A) It was a far drive closer to college than home, and out of the way of a standard commute, but when I went on my thrift shop/used media store hopping trips in college between classes, the yard that had the sale was on my way. and B) I only noticed it when I HAD a laser disc player. I came in late enough to not be highest-tech, early enough not to be ebay fodder, so I don't know enough about the Laser Disc market. The only things I knew were, More Letterbox editions, higher quality picture with S-Video which our TV didn't have,...

...and my Uncle has a Japanese Laser Disc copy of Song of the South as his most valuable laser disc. He even has the spine card common in Japan. I made a copy onto DVD. I know my dad and me would be the ones who'd appreciate his collection most, (if my cousin, his daughter, can have Tengen Tetris, because that who it was initially bought for, and if neither cousin objects, my dad and I should have his Laser Disc collection.) My dad was his only sibling. And my uncle would rather see joy in our hearts on earth from his stuff than have that be a reward for a wish for his death. And he wants it known before he loses either his life or marbles so there'd be no fights among family. I believe it's an honest and giving way to tidy up your affairs before you die.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2017, 23:20 
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Are you f-ing retarded? Did you not just read my post? You're listening to the stereo track.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 00:22 
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Man this is a troll if I've ever read one.

Keep enjoying that AC-3 on your head, and don't forget to strap those headphones on really tight.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 02:39 
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Okay, Now I'm getting some more information. Will the d/a and l/r affect the RCA outputs on the back? There is no AC3 specific port. Is there a way to get the AC3 track thorough the right analog RCA port, and then I can see if I can translate that to Toslink, and then from there run it into the X41 and see if it works. I'm trying to find a 4 track disc with 2 digital and 2 analog tracks. The Star Wars One Last Time disc is in AC3, so is Toy Story. I assume that if it were encoded, the right analog track should be nothing, or static, or noise gobbledygook if the right analog track has only AC3 and it's not plugged into something with an AC3 converter. I will do further investigating. Once My laser disc player I can get back to working. It currently SOMETIMES works.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 02:59 
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rein-o wrote:
Man this is a troll if I've ever read one.

Keep enjoying that AC-3 on your head, and don't forget to strap those headphones on really tight.


Don't forget the straight jacket!
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 03:07 
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You can’t get a usable AC-3 signal without an AC-3 port. You cannot select the right analog track and get it that way. The AC-3 signal exists on the same physical place as the right track but it isn’t handled the same way.

Once you have an AC-3 signal you need vintage gear to convert it to a standard DD stream (TOSLINK, SPDIF, same thing). As far as I know there was only ever one chip that demodulated AC-3 and it was used in every product that ever did it, none of which are being made today.

I think Happycube’s software can do it but it requires a modified player and a TV tuner.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 03:11 
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sjoerg wrote:
rein-o wrote:
Man this is a troll if I've ever read one.

Keep enjoying that AC-3 on your head, and don't forget to strap those headphones on really tight.


Don't forget the straight jacket!

I already have it on that's why my posts are very limited right now :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 03:46 
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I admit I never had Laser Disc much in the heyday. So a Panasonic CANNOT do a AC3 natively. So therefore it's Dolby incompatible. I thought since it had no AC# port and this mihgt be a newer player, maybe it transferred the AC3 via Toslink. Well I put it on analog right, and no sound came out the TV regularly. So I inserted the Coaxial->Toslink adapter. Now I have proof positive that the Turtle Beach either, a) requires an AC3 decoder to make it work with the X41, b) I need a laser disc player with an AC3 coaxial port to get Dolby to work, or c) Both.

I don't know if the Turtle Beach can do AC3 without a decoder, so the first thing I need is a Laaer DIsc Player with an AC3. port Then I can see if the X41 can decode ac3 and convert to headphone without a middle decoder with just a Coaxial to TOslink converter. It works between SPDIF formats, but not sure about AC3.

As for which mode I should have it in. The Toslink mode sounds crisper in Stereo, and as far as I can tell, the Stereo mix might be in headphone mode default. I could also put it in Dolby Pro Logic. I don't know if that imporves directionality, but it reduces crispness in sound. And I know for Legend of Zelda BOTW that a good 2 track mix can simulate surround sound if the computer KNOWS you're in headphone mode. On some N64 games, you can select speaker stereo, headphone stereo, or mono. Now Nintendo has mixed that sound good both ways withoiut flipping a switch. My Tyrtle Beaches doesn't translate the sound, and the 2 track sound sounds in surround. So there is more than one way to skin a cat. The Dolby 5.1-> Dolby headphone is just an easy, automatic conversion.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 14:49 
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You must really think we’re idiots. The combined home theater expertise here is over a century and a million dollars spent easily but really we’re all just total idiots because we can’t answer one of those most common LD noob questions to your satisfaction. Experts really are just the dumbest, right? Those people who have spent their lives studying something...screw them, right?
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 17:38 
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I don't think you're idiots, I just brought up a topic that wasn't brought up before. I searched the entire LDDB website for the words "Turtle Beach" and my comments are the only mentions of it. I tried to look for my answer elsewhere on LDDB, but no where else are the words "Turtle Beach" used either together or separately. So I am asking a new question for curiosity's sake. I brought up a new case. I'm sorry if you thought I was trolling, or acting newbie, but this combination of stuff has never came up before.

I've been giving caveats, like recording a headphone-encoded track translated from Dolby 5.1 using such a device does not sound right if you're not listening strictly through headphones. It sounds fake and over-processed on stereo TV speakers. It only makes sense within headphones.

A also acknowledge that there is more than one way to get surround sound through headphones. Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild doesn't have a Dolby license but sounds right in 3D sound via headphones using the basic stereo track, that you can't get through Stereo external speakers. Older games can be set for "optimized for External Speakers" or "optimized for Headphones" and those usually don't have a Dolby or DTS license.

And I can tell the difference between a DTS 5.1 that my headphones don't bother decoing and just gives an LPCM 2.0, and a DTS 5.1 converted to Dolby 5.1 and then converted to Dolby Headphones.

And yes, you may be sacrificing clarity in sound for more obvious directionality when using a Turtle Beach, but that's probably at the most subtle bit or 2. I'm not an audiophile enough to notice clarity, but I notice directionality well. But on the Star Wars, One Last Time Laser Disc edition, I did notice a difference between a Toslink Stereo undecoded (because in DD mode, anything that isn't DD is passed through untranslated) , and a Tosklink Stereo run through the Turtle Beach in Pro Logic Mode. I noticed the drop in clarity between those 2 modes when using Pro Logic. I think the stereo mix is a well-directionalized-for-headphone mix that the clarity difference is more obvious than directionality difference.

Turtle Beach is designed for gaming, and in gaming, directionality in 3D space is more important than hearing subtle qualities in sound. So it would be natural that it would be optimized for directionality. More advanced versions come with equalizers where you can focus on bass, treble, or speech range. And ideally, you manipulate the sound to give you a playing advantage, not hearing sounds in a realistic manner.


Last edited by tripletopper on 04 Dec 2017, 17:59, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 17:42 
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How to use AC-3 sound is a thing that comes up about once a month. It’s a very common question. Attaching a brand name to a search of something isn’t going to help your search.

There is NO WAY your doodad will demodulate AC-3. I promise you this.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 18:13 
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The reason why I though I had a special case was because a Turtle Beach doesn't need a (forgive the pun) stereotypical surround sound decoder to get surround sound on a game system. And I found it works equally well for DVD and more advanced Media forms, assuming you stay within standard. (in my case Dolby) I've never seen this combination before, and frankly no one else talked about it with gaming headsets. And Yes I can search brand names and model numbers and find close matches. If I'm the only one mentioning Turtle Beach, then chances are, I'm the first one who brought it up with gaming headsets (unless someone used another brand name like Triton or Astro.)

I didn't know the AC3 couldn't be able to be passed through Toslink. I knew I could physically convert between Toslink and Coaxial on DVDs and Higher. Turtle beach doesn't know if It can deal with an AC3 signal directly or if I have to use a middle AC3-> SPDIF translator.

But first I need step one, a Laser disc player with S-Video (I know I don't NEED S-Video for testing audio, but if I'm getting a new one, might as well dream big) and an AC3 port. So all this is academic until I find one. Unless someone else has a Turtle Beach or similar gaming headset, a Laser Disc player with an AC3 port, and possibly an AC3-> Dolby Digital converter, and if it only has Coaxial SPDIF, a coaaxial -> toslink converter.

It's probably cheaper to get them on DVD, but Laser disc is the best format for Star Wars Trilogy. (unless you insist Greedo shot first, in which case there's Blu Ray.) ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 19:54 
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Also I did a search for Triton, just my comments and a comment about a movie with the name "Triton" in it, and a search for "gaming surround headset" again only references to my conversation, either by me or others. Either no one else talked about them before or the LDDB.com Database search is not that good. Maybe I should search "astro" that's that's to common of a word in movie titles, or search AC3 and see if there's more than just our conversation. Be right back after these searches:
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 20:05 
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Searching "AC3" got me 63 search pages worth of search entries, and Astro, since they are sorted in chronological order, after my responses, had 2 pages and the first page had no reference to headphones. There's Astro City button arrangements, Astro Records, Astro Boy, but no Astro Headsets, other than my mentions. Since the AC3 has 63 PAGES worth of references, it's not that the LDDB.com database search is busted. It's just no one else talked about surround gaming headsets before, so I brought up perfectly cromulent ( ;) ) point that hasn't been discussed before on LBBD.com
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 20:36 
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I'd like to hear SignofZeta explain where surround gaming headsets have been talked about before I mentioned them, based on my search results. Or will you admit, I brought up a new case. I admit I didn't know enough about Laser Discs other than they had more widescreen versions than VHS and had a better picture quality with S-Video and have HEARD of surround sound coming from Laser Discs, I just never understood how, because my gaming headsets is our house's first surround experience, and bought them during the Xbox 360 era when they were on sale, and liked the effect. And a professional said, in pre-analysis when installing our HDTV, that our main movie room is a nightmare for setting up surround sound in 2008, when surround sound devices didn't have automatic room adjusters then, before we bought surround sets.

I started by doing a search and found no entries in "Turtle Beach" so I assumed most people don't use surround headsets for movies on this site. If they did, I would have searched the answer and if I wasn't satisifed, ask a question within THAT conversation.

I would like to thank the people who suggested the D/A button and the L/R/S button and setting it to A and R. I thought it was just like a DVD player, where you just insert the Tosink and the Turtle Beach picks it up. Amidst all the name calling, I picked up pieces of information about the d/a button, the l/r/stereo button, the special ac3 port, and found out it's a different language than DVD toslink surround.

I knew Toslink and Coaxial were interchangable with a powered adapter for DVDs and higher, so I thought I just had to just change physical forms of the signal. Now I know they are 2 separate languages. All Turtle Beaches require Toslink, so I don't whether changing forms is enough and the TB can understand the AC3 language natively, or whether it can't and needs an AC3 -> SPDIF converter. I can't find out for sure NOW, because my LD player doesn't have an AC3 port.

By the way, finding an AC3 Coaxial to Dolby 5.1 Toslink converter is expensive on Ebay. It's probably a thrift store find. If I go to a thrift store without a smart phone, is there an easy way to tell if a device has the ability to decode AC3? Is it as easy as looking for a hole with the words "AC3 IN" printed by it? If so, I hope to find one. I know that knowing which LD players will work is as easy for searching for the words "AC3 out" by a hole, and I recognize an S-Video port when I see it. Is that basically all I need to know, or is it more complex than that? (I understand plug it in, run a CD to test if the laser is working if they don't have laser discs in the thrift shop. CDs are VERY common at thrift shops. If the clock moves I'm 90% likely that it works well enough or may need a minor fix.)
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2017, 20:52 
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What your surround headset does is take a SPDIF and turn it into stereo. Almost every TV does the same thing. It’s only a “new case” if you narrowly define the use case by brand or the shape of the two speakers.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2017, 00:44 
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This troll is killing me.

Are you sure you can't tap off AC3 to get fairy's and elves to float around my house???
I know whatever you are smoking gets you surround sound.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2017, 10:15 
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Image

Describes pretty much how this thread makes me feel.
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 Post subject: Re: Will just these get me surround sound?
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2017, 20:16 
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Why are people calling me the troll when I did my search and could find no exact match, for anything related to gaming headphones. I've explained myself many time. I made concessions when I didn't know the answer, or when I tested it an found it not beneficial to me? It's easier to call the newbie the troll, becuase he found something foreign tot he rest of the forum that works for him and was wondering how he could use it, while SignofZeta and others push their narrow view and think Surround sound headsets is the exact same thing as stereo headsets.

Who is the close minded one? The one who found a way not discussed elsewhere in the forum, and is not pushing it on others, but just trying to get it working for himself, or the ones pushing the agenda that there is no difference between Gaming Surround Sets and Basic Stereo sets, so suck it up newbie? Literally every reference to using surround gaming headsets on Laser Discs on the LDDB.com forum points to this same conversation, and none before.
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