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 Post subject: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 10:19 
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We all know that the infamous VNL1779 isn't manufactured anymore by Pioneer and for several years it has been both expensive and difficult to find. Since I'm studying 3D technology at college right now, I've decided to recreate the M holder with the help of IronCAD and several 3D printers. I'll do several prototypes and once I've managed to get it right I'll then be able to make some of these (hopefully with a Fortus) for those of you who need one. I'll also publish the final stl files on Thingiverse so anyone'll be able to download them and play for themselves.

Since this is a project for educational purposes, I cannot charge you for any of this (apart from the shipping). You may not use the finished parts to make any kind of profit neither. You may only get one for individual use.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 10:58 
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Great idea - here's to your success.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 15:11 
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You’re ignoring me so I don’t know if you’ll see this but I’m glad you’re trying it. While people love to bring up 3D printing as a way to keep LD players going I’m pretty sure the M Holders are going to be pretty weak if 3D printed using conventional means. I feel this way because where they break as an IP part (a shaft mounted perpendicular to a thin wall) is going to be even much weaker as a 3D printed part.

Obviously someone needs to actually try this to prove it one way or another but honestly it seems like an experienced craftsman could fabricate one out of solder and brass in less time that it takes to hand polish lumpy as can be 3D printed parts.

Maybe print the “box” of it and use a screwed-in pin for the shaft?

Are you an engineering student in general or is this a lark? Have you talked about this project with your instructor? What sorts of gear do you have? A sintered metal bath type thing would work great, but man that hobby plastic just ain’t gunna do it, IMHO.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 16:19 
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I'm an engineering student and this is part of an obligatory task. So far I've only let my instructor know about my plan, the project will start in two weeks. I have access to several 3D printers, most of them are desktops and will be used for prototypes but I see your point as these will most likely not be usable in the long run, especially not if printed with PLA instead of ABS. The Ultimaker is probably most suited for testing but I will try to print the final part with a Fortus since it's able to pull off much more stable prints overall. Look it up if you're unfamiliar with it.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 02:49 
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If the strength of the plastic is an issue I am wondering if what you are doing could also be used to make molds for aluminum casting. that way even if the plastic is weak it could maybe be used as a form for a stronger material like aluminum.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 19:43 
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signofzeta wrote:
You’re ignoring me so I don’t know if you’ll see this but I’m glad you’re trying it. While people love to bring up 3D printing as a way to keep LD players going I’m pretty sure the M Holders are going to be pretty weak if 3D printed using conventional means. I feel this way because where they break as an IP part (a shaft mounted perpendicular to a thin wall) is going to be even much weaker as a 3D printed part.

Obviously someone needs to actually try this to prove it one way or another but honestly it seems like an experienced craftsman could fabricate one out of solder and brass in less time that it takes to hand polish lumpy as can be 3D printed parts.

Maybe print the “box” of it and use a screwed-in pin for the shaft?

Are you an engineering student in general or is this a lark? Have you talked about this project with your instructor? What sorts of gear do you have? A sintered metal bath type thing would work great, but man that hobby plastic just ain’t gunna do it, IMHO.

My immediate thought is, use the filament-type printers to play with the design until the shape is right, then use some other technique to fabricate a final part. The UV-resin-curing system can make parts as dense & strong as injection moulding. Or, as you say, one of several metal-printing techniques might work. But my immediate thought is a resin-printed part with a metal shaft pressed into it. (Also, assuming no dimensional interference problems, it would be possible to tweak the CAD model to provide reinforcement at that weak point.)
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 21:28 
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Totally agree - that's the beauty of having it as an STL file.

Also note that the VNL1700 and 1779 are quite different, so I think as long as the replacement part does the same job, it should be OK.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 21:59 
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And you will get it as soon as it's done.

Is the VNL1700 the first version, which is more fragile? I've got two VNL1779s that will be used for reference.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 22:19 
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Thanks! And yup - 1700 was used in CLD's before 1998 or so - the late production models like the R7G have the 1779.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 22:42 
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The 1779 holds up fine, the 1700 is the problem child, the 1700 is too hard and brittle. The final product will need to have the plastic characteristic of the 1779 plastic compound. I replace the 1700 with a 1779 on every unit I work on but I'm going to run out soon unless I get more broke DVL units to get parts from.

Pioneer made this same problem with the tray used in the LD-S9 and HLD-X9. The plastic is too hard and brittle and the guide on the bottom that controls the position of the load arm breaks and the tray will not open properly. I use the CLD-99/704/503/etc. tray to replace them often. The back tabs break on all these trays but that is non-critical to operation, only holding the tray at a rest position, so I don't worry about that as much.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2018, 18:19 
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The 1779 holds up fine, the 1700 is the problem child

what was the first year M-holder 1700 came out on CLD players?
was that in the 80's or 90's?

did both CLD-97 and CLD-959 have the infamous M-holder version 1700?
I have a friend who owns both players, he might be selling one of them to me?
if both players have poorly designed 1700 M-holder I won't bother buying this player
are both CLD-97 and CLD-959 TOP players giving HQ picture audio playbacK?

I don't know what MY my CLD-R7G is?
if it has the early 1700 or successor 1779 M-holder?
how do I find out what year my player is?
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 00:01 
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van-dammage wrote:
how do I find out what year my player is?


On the LDDB Homepage, go to "Help" and then select "Mint-o-Matic".
You can enter the serial number of Pioneer products there, and it should
tell you the production year in return.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 01:25 
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van-dammage wrote:
The 1779 holds up fine, the 1700 is the problem child

what was the first year M-holder 1700 came out on CLD players?
was that in the 80's or 90's?

did both CLD-97 and CLD-959 have the infamous M-holder version 1700?
I have a friend who owns both players, he might be selling one of them to me?
if both players have poorly designed 1700 M-holder I won't bother buying this player
are both CLD-97 and CLD-959 TOP players giving HQ picture audio playbacK?

I don't know what MY my CLD-R7G is?
if it has the early 1700 or successor 1779 M-holder?
how do I find out what year my player is?


The 97 and 959 are totally different designs. The 1700 was in the CLD-59/504/604/505/605/406/606.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 02:27 
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krbahr wrote:
van-dammage wrote:
The 1779 holds up fine, the 1700 is the problem child

what was the first year M-holder 1700 came out on CLD players?
was that in the 80's or 90's?

did both CLD-97 and CLD-959 have the infamous M-holder version 1700?
I have a friend who owns both players, he might be selling one of them to me?
if both players have poorly designed 1700 M-holder I won't bother buying this player
are both CLD-97 and CLD-959 TOP players giving HQ picture audio playbacK?

I don't know what MY my CLD-R7G is?
if it has the early 1700 or successor 1779 M-holder?
how do I find out what year my player is?


The 97 and 959 are totally different designs. The 1700 was in the CLD-59/504/604/505/605/406/606.


thanks for the input.
I will make another thread.
I appreciate if you will share your experiance with players 97 and 959
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 02:28 
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lons_vex wrote:
van-dammage wrote:
how do I find out what year my player is?


On the LDDB Homepage, go to "Help" and then select "Mint-o-Matic".
You can enter the serial number of Pioneer products there, and it should
tell you the production year in return.


thanx buddy
I will check this out
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 18:05 
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did a check up on Mint o matic for my CLD-R7G.
R7G comes up as manufactured in FEB-1999.

so I have a late model CLD-R7G, however this player has the old Pioneer logo not the new cursive logo.
how is this possible?
there are DVL-919 players manufactured in late 1998 with new logo?
did Pioneer use both old and new logo on their players back in 1998?
why does my R7G have the old logo?

looks like my player has the upgraded M-holder 1779
cool!

didn't know about minto matic
this was a cool feature.
thanks Julien :thumbup:
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2018, 23:56 
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Your player doesn't have the date on the back????
Should also have the person who assembled or inspected it last on the back.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 00:16 
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rein-o wrote:
Your player doesn't have the date on the back????
Should also have the person who assembled or inspected it last on the back.


Japanese S/N label doesn't show what year machine was build

This is what U refer to?
There's a black sticker with a japanese name on it, this must be the highly acclaimed builder from Pioneer who assembled the machine?
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 00:44 
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van-dammage wrote:
rein-o wrote:
Your player doesn't have the date on the back????
Should also have the person who assembled or inspected it last on the back.


Japanese S/N label doesn't show what year machine was build

This is what U refer to?
There's a black sticker with a japanese name on it, this must be the highly acclaimed builder from Pioneer who assembled the machine?

Not always, just a builder.
Must be a black market or something, mine had a year of when it was made.
All my LD players have a sticker to show year of make, must be why you got your R7G so cheap.
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 Post subject: Re: Recreating the VNL1779 - for real
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 01:04 
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rein-o wrote:
van-dammage wrote:
rein-o wrote:
Your player doesn't have the date on the back????
Should also have the person who assembled or inspected it last on the back.


Japanese S/N label doesn't show what year machine was build

This is what U refer to?
There's a black sticker with a japanese name on it, this must be the highly acclaimed builder from Pioneer who assembled the machine?

Not always, just a builder.
Must be a black market or something, mine had a year of when it was made.
All my LD players have a sticker to show year of make, must be why you got your R7G so cheap.


checked Yahoo, none of the R7G's have a manufacturing date stamp on white S/N label
my DVL909 has a date stamp, this is euro model
  
 
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