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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2018, 02:34 
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eighties wrote:
I'm not talking about a high-quality player for the serious technophiles. I'm talking about something that'll play that odd disc that you find at a Goodwill or yard sale. Maybe even a whole box you found in Uncle Bob's backroom. It would be strictly a novelty item and a little nostalgic. So make it out of less than high quality parts and add a cheap come filter with an HDMI output so that it can be plugged into today's TVs. Needs to be cheap so people will buy it the serious collectors will stick with the Vintage machines. Like you said we're just playing what if, but I seen stranger things. Just fun to speculate.


So what you want is another piece of junk made for the landfill. Something far worse than vintage. A Crosley LD player. It’ll never happen. A cheap LD player isn’t a thing you can make. It’s a 1lb disc spinning at 1800RPM and it has to be stable enough to read an analog video signal. If it’s $50 and all plastic it’ll shake itself to pieces on the first disc.

Go find a Pioneer CLD S-104, the cheapest player Pioneer ever sold (1995). Now go to Best Buy or Target or whatever and find ANYTHING in the electronics department that is as well built as this worst player Pioneer ever built. There isn’t one. Nobody knows how to do this stuff anymore. Everything is built off playing back computer files from flash chips. There is no analog expertise anymore, also no economies of scale, also no market. Tescos wont buy 100,000 LD players like they will ghetto blasters.


Last edited by signofzeta on 03 Oct 2018, 02:48, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2018, 02:38 
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remav wrote:
As long as we are all playing what if?
... what if instead of trying to create a player we instead took an entirely different approach & just created a device that was able to read & measure all the pits & falls effectively "backing up" the Laserdisc? I assume at a much lower rotation speed and then used a software emulator to read it back & play it? Wouldn't that vastly reduce the complexity of the hardware?


We’ve talked quite a bit about this here. IMHO it’s inevitable but still quite a ways off. In my vision it doesn’t spin at all. Just scan the whole side at once.

The challenge lies in first identifying and “tracking” the spiral and then the next step would be a way to turn that into a RF signal. After that Happycube has done the rest already.

Sadly the parts that need doing are the hardest. :) The up side is that this technique would be potentially very useful for rescuing most kinds of optical discs so LD fans don’t have to be the only ones involved. You could even use it (or first develop it?) to work with LPs.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2018, 03:11 
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"So what you want is another piece of junk made for the landfill. Something far worse than vintage. A Crosley LD player. It’ll never happen. A cheap LD player isn’t a thing you can make. It’s a 1lb disc spinning at 1800RPM and it has to be stable enough to read an analog video signal. If it’s $50 and all plastic it’ll shake itself to pieces on the first disc.

Go find a Pioneer CLD S-104, the cheapest player Pioneer ever sold (1995). Now go to Best Buy or Target or whatever and find ANYTHING in the electronics department that is as well built as this worst player Pioneer ever built. There isn’t one. Nobody knows how to do this stuff anymore. Everything is built off playing back computer files from flash chips. There is no analog expertise anymore, also no economies of scale, also no market. Tescos wont buy 100,000 LD players like they will ghetto blasters."


Why so snide and sarcastic?? You know I got into the LaserDisc thing very recently. I just found this board and was excited to find other people who are as enthused about it as I am. If this is the kind of attitude going to be thrown at somebody who's just getting started perhaps this isn't the place for me. Sorry if I offended anyone.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2018, 03:33 
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It’s not your fault popular modern electronics are garbage. Don’t be offended by it.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2018, 04:05 
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This is pretty funny that it's gone 4 pages now and our first poster troll is MIA.

You will never get any LD player made anymore without software.
No movie company in any mind will license their product to anybody with any amount of money to release it on LD.

Even if you get an X0 style player made for under 50 bucks. With no new software you won't get anything.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2018, 04:51 
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I think it is perfeclty natural to think about "return of laserdisc" when you discover this media, and start to love it.
I also had the same natural thought when I start laserdisc 3 years ago (I did a post about that, and as here, everyone said it was impossible, and I thought they just lacked of enthousiam).

But now, I perfectly understand and accept that it will not be possible.
I talked a lot with pioneer engeneer here in Japan, and only few people (+50 years old) in Pioneer, can perfectly understand now how LD works.
Pioneer also did a fusion with onkyo, and changed their catagory like that : Their target is now people who don't want to spend more than 100$ for a player.

Most of engeneer now, are not working on creating technology from scratch.
They are thinking about using technology that already exists (100% digital), and combine them together smartly, to sell them well.

After watching some video on you tube about the LD production process, you will also understand why it would be difficult.
You need BIG, very BIG factory to press and realease movies. Then lot of customers.

LD has been possible, because in Japan, between 1980 and 1990, people and factory had too much money.
One movie costed between 5000 yens and 20.000 yens. The price of a player today.
The way of thinking were also completly different.
Big, expensive things had good image in the society.

The real problem is not really the technology. because any engeneer can learn in few month about any technology.
The problem is neither about "quality of the image". Because today, 90% of people watch movies on 10cm screens.
Most of people I know don't mind about difference between a 4K video and 240p video on you tube. But they want it fast.
Today, the keywords are "fast", "small", "eco", "fun", "convenient".
If you can prove to the entire society, that LD are all of that, then you have a chance of return.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2018, 05:41 
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eighties wrote:
Why so snide and sarcastic?? You know I got into the LaserDisc thing very recently. I just found this board and was excited to find other people who are as enthused about it as I am. If this is the kind of attitude going to be thrown at somebody who's just getting started perhaps this isn't the place for me. Sorry if I offended anyone.


You didn't offend anyone. :)

Maybe some of us are just old farts and get irritated at times because many of us have been w/ the format from day one and we hear a lot of the same questions over and over again (my goodness, how many times have I wrote about stretched loading belts now :crazy: ).

Anyway, my simple advice as a newbie; don't buy "pan & scan" titles and collect titles that are of the later releases (picture quality is usually better and many titles have Dolby AC3 or DTS encoding). Also, I personally love getting rare box sets of a movie or TV show if the packaging is well executed.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2018, 09:26 
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mimylovesjapan wrote:
I think it is perfeclty natural to think about "return of laserdisc" when you discover this media, and start to love it.
I also had the same natural thought when I start laserdisc 3 years ago (I did a post about that, and as here, everyone said it was impossible, and I thought they just lacked of enthousiam).

But now, I perfectly understand and accept that it will not be possible.
I talked a lot with pioneer engeneer here in Japan, and only few people (+50 years old) in Pioneer, can perfectly understand now how LD works.
Pioneer also did a fusion with onkyo, and changed their catagory like that : Their target is now people who don't want to spend more than 100$ for a player.

Most of engeneer now, are not working on creating technology from scratch.
They are thinking about using technology that already exists (100% digital), and combine them together smartly, to sell them well.

After watching some video on you tube about the LD production process, you will also understand why it would be difficult.
You need BIG, very BIG factory to press and realease movies. Then lot of customers.

LD has been possible, because in Japan, between 1980 and 1990, people and factory had too much money.
One movie costed between 5000 yens and 20.000 yens. The price of a player today.
The way of thinking were also completly different.
Big, expensive things had good image in the society.

The real problem is not really the technology. because any engeneer can learn in few month about any technology.
The problem is neither about "quality of the image". Because today, 90% of people watch movies on 10cm screens.
Most of people I know don't mind about difference between a 4K video and 240p video on you tube. But they want it fast.
Today, the keywords are "fast", "small", "eco", "fun", "convenient".
If you can prove to the entire society, that LD are all of that, then you have a chance of return.


Yeah what you say is all true but a lot of people who lived in the old times are still going to be around for another 30-50 years and they remember the slow, big and expensive way, the better way.

Still I'd like to see an LD fan win the $500 million lottery and produce a new elite player at a loss. It could happen if you just threw enough money at it.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2018, 11:07 
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ldfan wrote:
collect titles that are of the later releases (picture quality is usually better and many titles have Dolby AC3 or DTS encoding).

Sometimes you might be better off with an earlier release.

My advice is to just do your research for individual titles.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2018, 22:20 
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mimylovesjapan wrote:
I think it is perfeclty natural to think about "return of laserdisc" when you discover this media, and start to love it.
I also had the same natural thought when I start laserdisc 3 years ago (I did a post about that, and as here, everyone said it was impossible, and I thought they just lacked of enthousiam).

But now, I perfectly understand and accept that it will not be possible.
I talked a lot with pioneer engeneer here in Japan, and only few people (+50 years old) in Pioneer, can perfectly understand now how LD works.
Pioneer also did a fusion with onkyo, and changed their catagory like that : Their target is now people who don't want to spend more than 100$ for a player.

Most of engeneer now, are not working on creating technology from scratch.
They are thinking about using technology that already exists (100% digital), and combine them together smartly, to sell them well.

After watching some video on you tube about the LD production process, you will also understand why it would be difficult.
You need BIG, very BIG factory to press and realease movies. Then lot of customers.

LD has been possible, because in Japan, between 1980 and 1990, people and factory had too much money.
One movie costed between 5000 yens and 20.000 yens. The price of a player today.
The way of thinking were also completly different.
Big, expensive things had good image in the society.

The real problem is not really the technology. because any engeneer can learn in few month about any technology.
The problem is neither about "quality of the image". Because today, 90% of people watch movies on 10cm screens.
Most of people I know don't mind about difference between a 4K video and 240p video on you tube. But they want it fast.
Today, the keywords are "fast", "small", "eco", "fun", "convenient".
If you can prove to the entire society, that LD are all of that, then you have a chance of return.


I agree. LD wasn’t originally designed to be a rich man’s format but it would have failed if Pioneer didn’t go upmarket once they had controll...to a market that no longer exists now. There was maybe an 8 year span where things like the X0 would actually sell. It’s that sort of excess that made pretty much everything about LD after Digital Sound possible. That same excess was found in CD players, VCRs, model kits, camcorders, etc, all sorts of stuff from Japan. Everyone has their belt a bit tighter now.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2018, 20:24 
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Ldfan,

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. :D I'm hoping I'll come across a few gems that were never released to DVD or Blu-ray. I enjoy the hunt.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2018, 22:52 
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ldfan wrote:

Anyway, my simple advice as a newbie; don't buy "pan & scan" titles and collect titles that are of the later releases (picture quality is usually better and many titles have Dolby AC3 or DTS encoding). Also, I personally love getting rare box sets of a movie or TV show if the packaging is well executed.


Some of these listed as Pan and Scan are actually open matte and should be bought on a case by case basis IF you want such a thing.

If your TV or projector has a way of zooming then you will be doing the exact same thing they do when they release "matted" widescreen
releases.
But its sort of fun to see a film in open matte and then when you go back to the matted version you really feel that its been cramped
and you don't get the full image, even if the director wanted something, who cares they see with our eyes.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2018, 23:33 
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rein-o wrote:

Some of these listed as Pan and Scan are actually open matte and should be bought on a case by case basis IF you want such a thing



Agreed.... And I do want to emphasize "case by case" because sometimes it's incredibly hard to figure out if a film is completely or partially "open matte". Examples are RoboCop and Terminator 2 which utilize both P&S and open matte (although T2 is actually doing a variable P&S w/ open matte that is considered approved by James Cameron).

Also, I just purchased the Criterion LD version of Help! and this edition is supposed to be a "full frame" edition as noted on lddb. After watching it and comparing it to snippits on YouTube, it's definitely an oddball full frame that has the left & right portions cut off in many areas (thus, depending on whether you own the full frame or widescreen edition, you will get less as well as more of the movie on either edition). So which version is right is probably up to one's preference. I actually have some buyers remorse now since most of my viewing is on a widescreen TV and I'm sure the film was shown wide in theaters during its theatrical run.

In the end, I'm now going to try and use the simple formula of "every film from 1957 and on" as my starting point to scrutinize aspect ratios (anything from 1956 and before should all be 4:3 ratio).


Last edited by ldfan on 05 Oct 2018, 04:30, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2018, 00:32 
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Yeah, there are so may variables it can get crazy.

What also gets crazy to me is when I would upgrade from a P/S to widescreen but it was very little, almost like a 1.66 and why even bother :evil:

So many titles that I bought over the years having the P/S and wish I didn't even waste the time or money in those situations :cry:
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2018, 08:46 
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For my part,
I love Pan and Scan editions of movies : the quality is really impressive sometimes, as you don't have to zoom in.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2018, 02:39 
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mimylovesjapan wrote:
For my part,
I love Pan and Scan editions of movies : the quality is really impressive sometimes, as you don't have to zoom in.


I have the “TV size” version of The Royal Space Force and I have to agree. If I had to have one I want the correct aspect ratio but the detail that can only be seen this release is impressive.
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2018, 14:36 
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The Royal Space Force is really a good exemple. I have the Widescreen version, and you have to zoom in more than double to see something.
It is maybe the worst widescreen version i never owned.
But I love the box, and the last disc with OST on it !
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2018, 15:05 
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The Galaxy Express 999 movie box set is also like this, the films are open matte and the USA DVDs are cropped.

So is that the only way to get Royal Space Force in open matte on the early Japanese LD??
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2018, 16:03 
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mimylovesjapan wrote:
The Royal Space Force is really a good exemple. I have the Widescreen version, and you have to zoom in more than double to see something.
It is maybe the worst widescreen version i never owned.
But I love the box, and the last disc with OST on it !


I guess I've got the worst of both worlds with the BELL-140 release, no box, no OST and in widescreen. Still I like my copy. Apparantly my disc came out only a few months after the theatrical release in 1987?
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 Post subject: Re: Laserdisc Player Resurrection Crowdfunding Project, ANYO
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2018, 19:25 
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"and you have to zoom in more than double to see something" Ok so s****y transfers aside what does this even mean?

Surely if you're talking animation and it was drawn 4:3, it should be viewed 4:3; and beyond that the viewing AR should match what was drawn for????? How is anything else even possible?

Frankly beyond that I just don't get it. Please feel free to educate me further.....
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