It is currently 12 Dec 2019, 17:43




 Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2018, 00:09 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 476
Location: United States
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 24 times
Knowing that the parts supply is quickly drying up (especially for rare or higher end players) I'm wondering if spindle motors can be rebuilt? I'm thinking there has to be places that service similar type motors that would be able to rebuild one?
_________________
Panasonic LX-HD20
Sony HIL-C2EX
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2018, 22:44 
Serious fan
Serious fan
User avatar

Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18
Posts: 152
Location: United States
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 15 times
I would assume so. No idea what the cost would be though.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2018, 12:57 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 476
Location: United States
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 24 times
cplusplus wrote:
I would assume so. No idea what the cost would be though.


That is what I think also. If someone is sitting on an expensive player where raiding parts from a similar model isn't possible this might be the only option if / when a spindle motor goes.
_________________
Panasonic LX-HD20
Sony HIL-C2EX
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2018, 15:16 
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05
Posts: 5960
Location: United States
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 160 times
You are dealing with a technology issue, these were never made to be taken apart and rebuilt.

You may be able to rebuild some of the very early spindles but nothing from lets say a 3070 time frame forward, just too compact and not able to take apart etc.
Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2018, 03:02 
Serious fan
Serious fan
User avatar

Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18
Posts: 152
Location: United States
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 15 times
rein-o wrote:
You are dealing with a technology issue, these were never made to be taken apart and rebuilt.


This is true, but I was in a situation where my spindle motor was no longer functional and there were no parts available, I would attempt to rebuild it myself. I've seen some rebuilds of pretty small DC motors. I guess the next step would be attempting to find a motor of the same specifications which seems a lot less realistic.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 16:23 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 476
Location: United States
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 24 times
Here are some images of a guy I know at least attempting to figure out the inner workings, he believes they are **theoretically** rebuildable -

Image

Image

Image

Image
_________________
Panasonic LX-HD20
Sony HIL-C2EX
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 16:32 
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05
Posts: 5960
Location: United States
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 160 times
Ugh, those small caps are a total pain to deal with, you need to have Zero shake and or special equipment to replace them.

When those types of board are made they go through a river of liquid solder or have machine arms doing the soldering jobs.

Also one needs to find out how those mags are in way of distance from the outer to inner ring, that will make a difference if worn and if they need to be replaced.

Those coils shouldn't need to be messed with but they can always be re-wound if needed, thats the easiest part of the whole spindle there.
Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 18:36 
True fan
True fan
User avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 16:35
Posts: 476
Location: United States
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 24 times
rein-o wrote:
Ugh, those small caps are a total pain to deal with, you need to have Zero shake and or special equipment to replace them.

When those types of board are made they go through a river of liquid solder or have machine arms doing the soldering jobs.

Also one needs to find out how those mags are in way of distance from the outer to inner ring, that will make a difference if worn and if they need to be replaced.

Those coils shouldn't need to be messed with but they can always be re-wound if needed, thats the easiest part of the whole spindle there.


I take no credit for any of this information, this is from my buddy on FB. I figured all we need is someone capable of doing this and I think I found him. I know a lot of you think FB LD groups are all fun and games with no serious discussion going on and while I do agree that the large group now sucks there are other groups and some of us are trying to do meaningful things on the platform (along with the normal joking around) -

There are no capacitors on the board only two resistors, jumpers, and hall effect monitors.

Components are SMD, difficult to do by hand but not impossible for a skilled tech (none of this was solder bathed on).

The hall effect monitors sense electromagnetic fields they are basically speed monitors.

Possible points of failure for a spindle motor are -
1. Seized bearing.
2. Burned coil.
3. Dead hall effect monitor.
4. Physical damage to the case or shaft.

If we have a spindle motor that is known to be bad while the rest of the player is working perfectly he is confident that motor can be repaired.
_________________
Panasonic LX-HD20
Sony HIL-C2EX
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 19:46 
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05
Posts: 5960
Location: United States
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 160 times
Those parts are not solder bath correct, but some electronics are done that way, not the above. Just pointing out the types of non human soldering.

It can be done but very, very hard. You need that stable hand or a robotic arm.

As the picture says they are Hall Sensors, I've never heard of them, but then again I've never heard of everything.
I just did a search and see what they are but they sure do look like those micro caps that are on more modern electronics that I've encountered with guitar pedals and amps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalum_capacitor
I didn't know the correct name but I believe these are what I've encountered in the past.


No matter, good luck to whoever is doing it.
The nice thing is that the coil wire is not super thin so you can wrap it by hand and it only has a few wraps not multi-thousands like guitar pickups or other transformers.
Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 21:42 
Confirmed Padawan
Confirmed Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 3882
Location: United States
Has thanked: 110 times
Been thanked: 240 times
Most spindles will fail at a bearing. The main challenge will be opening and re-assembling the motor that was designed to be a unit replacement item. The bearings are probably something you could find or substitute. I’ve been thinking about this too since I have several later more failure prone players with two going on me this year. At the moment I don’t have any wasted spindles to experiment with though.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2019, 02:02 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2018, 02:00
Posts: 80
Location: United States
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 8 times
I have a CLD-99 spindle motor that might fit your need. It still works, but at best only gets through a couple movies before slowing & finally stops.
One thought I had is that it is just dying for some lube & I see there is a hole on top.
Any chance that's all it might need? If so, what lube & how?
Next, if the bearing is just too far gone it might be a good candidate for a fix attempt. Contact info for anyone who would like to try?

The only other thing that I'd like to say to anyone out there that is thinking this is major surgery. It isn't. Yes, you have to move a few things out of the way, but with the cables & braces etc out of the way, the Pioneers of this vintage require only 4 screws to allow removal of the entire track/laser assy. Move a slide rail out of the way (1 screw) & 3 screws are all that hold the motor in. It drops out the bottom. Most importantly, nothing you touch affects any of the alignments. The donor box for my 99 was a CLD-503, so a little easier, but anyone with a little ability should not fear swapping out a spindle motor.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2019, 02:58 
Confirmed Padawan
Confirmed Padawan
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44
Posts: 3882
Location: United States
Has thanked: 110 times
Been thanked: 240 times
I didn’t update but I eventually got my 99 motor apart. I did break it but I think in the future it may be possible to take one apart without breaking it.

The hardest time I had was getting the actual wheel off. It’s a press fit. I did pull it off but a small part broke.

There isn’t going to be a way to decently lubricate any sealed bearing. At this point the BBs are all gauled up. It’s not a lube issue, it’s just shot. The idea would be to open it and replace the bearing outright, perhaps with something better.

I’m too busy to work on this lately but we’ll get back to it. I do love the 99s...

If a motor failed electrically it shouldn’t be too hard to fix but if there’s an open in a coil I’d suggest stealing the bearing and transferring it to one with good electronics. My guess is that on earlier decks the bearing will be what goes almost every time. On older decks the spindles usually last forever so if they ever do die it might actually be electrical.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2019, 03:32 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2018, 02:00
Posts: 80
Location: United States
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 8 times
I was successful (2 for 2) on pulling the clamp off the shaft. (yanking might be a better description) Just don't try pulling from the speed indicator ring area. I assume that's what you broke? The plastic spacer at the bottom of the shaft was missing from my "bad" motor. I used two washers & a good amount of lithium grease to make a new one. I think this worked as the prior symptom was the clamp assembly moving down until the speed indicator ring would crash into the sensor. I assume the shaft was getting so hot that the spacer broke or something. Clamp material was replaced just prior to me purchasing it, so no telling.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2019, 20:01 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2018, 02:00
Posts: 80
Location: United States
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 8 times
I'm going to start a new thread since my issue no longer seems to be a bad motor, but just how to hold the parts together after pulling the clamp off a good motor, but to update you just noticed that the plastic spacer at the bottom is glued to the shaft. This part was originally glued to the clamp. Now that I noticed that I only had to use a couple washers to space things to the correct height for the RPM wheel/sensor. All good, except now when it warms up the shaft spins inside the clamp. I want to glue it in place, but not good enough glue to make it impossible to pull off at some future date if necessary. I know mechanics use permatex products for semi-permanent things like this, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel. I can't be the first one in this situation, right?
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can spindle motors be rebuilt?
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2019, 23:53 
Honest fan
Honest fan
User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2018, 02:00
Posts: 80
Location: United States
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 8 times
My CLD-99 is repaired.
Since the original symptoms of mine exactly matched a bearing failure I'm left wondering how many others are misdiagnosing a simple glue failure which allows the clamp assembly to move down on the shaft which crashes the RPM wheel into its sensor?
The fix is to find a spacer (i used 2 flat washers) and epoxy to both the bottom of the RPM Wheel and to the plastic washer at the bottom of the shaft. Also to the shaft itself, but that will be near impossible to avoid anyway. A correctly sized spacer will leave the RPM sensor correctly aligned in the sensor gap and eliminate any possibility of a glue failure dropping the ring into the sensor. A glue failure would simply allow the shaft to turn inside the assembly requiring a simple re-gluing.
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: