Let's look at the hints,

- All major Hi-Fi manufacturers dropped Blu-ray Disc players from their line up. There is no video disc player of any form from Denon, Marantz, Onkyo and Yamaha. Pioneer has one really high end player with a price tag of $1100. I don't believe this player targets video disc enthusiasts but high end CD/SACD player customers. Oppo is no longer. Sony, Panasonic, LG and Samsung makes video disc players but they are no where near the built quality of previous generation players.

-PS4 doesn't play 4K discs. Xbox one X does but via add on app. Both are pushing their online store for games, movies and music. They make it more difficult to run anything from a disc.

-Media sections are getting smaller and smaller in major retailers. I have more movies in my collection than the entire media inventories for all the retailers in my town combined. (probably next town too)

-All of the used cd/dvd stores turned into punk t-shirt stores. All others closed down.

-I think the biggest contributor to video discs death is the death of CD/SACD in the audiophile community. Even the very high end manufacturers are making/promoting network streaming players which streams music from a computer/server or built in hard drive. Websites like HDtracks.com sell high resolution lossless music that isn't available on any disc format. The audiophiles were the ones buying the high end OPPO, McIntosh, Theta and alike players because those players also played CDs and SACDs very well. Now that you can get better quality music tracks online, there is no market for a great universal video disc player with an excellent DAC.

4K UHD Blu-ray are the very last video disc format on physical media for sure, no question about it. How many more years does it have? I think regular Blu-rays will outlive it but not a lot longer. I think they will pull the plug on 4K UHD as early as the very first minor dip in the sales and that will probably happen in less than 2 years. They will likely continue releasing DVD and regular Blu-rays for major releases for a few more years. Hardware manufacturers will probably keep one product alive in their line up that is something pretty mediocre and just ok to play your existing library.


To be honest, I am not too upset. I don't really care so much for newer movies. They make something like less than 5 great movies per year. I hope they pull the plug on physical media and people start dumping their discs and players for cheap. Same goes for music. I have 190 UHD 4K Blu-rays, 2600 Blu-rays, 400+ HD-DVDs, 108 D-Theater tapes, 44 Hi-Vision LDs, 500+ DVDs and 600+ LDs. I would like to add maybe another 400-500 discs and then I am set for life. Death of physical media would stop me from double, triple, quadruple dipping on the same titles.

I was talking about this elsewhere recently. Not too long honestly. Hard to put an exact guess on it though.

I think it's probably for the best too. I like physical media, but it's just more resource strain on the planet. Like you I am not really interested in many newer movies. There are newer games here and there that I play but I would be just as fine buying them digitally.

I've been shrinking my collection down so I don't buy many and that I have mainly to get would be Criterions and an Eva release but that seems it these days. I would like to get a player in the future if one of mine breaks. I just wonder how long will LaserDisc survive until their just wall art and unplayable.

What you’re saying is true. Target doesn’t even carry CDs anymore (but they have $40 LPs...go figure) and their movie section was halved recently.

However it’s really only doom and gloom for the high-ish end. There will be be a market for 1080p BRs at least until everywhere in America can stream that quality which isn’t very close. The hardcore will need to import not from Japan or Germany, but from North Dakota or some other desolate place where decent net speeds are a pipe dream.

I don’t know about 4K. To take advantage of it your movie pretty much has to be modern computer generated super hero crap or PERFECTLY shot like 2001 or Lawrence of Arabia. Otherwise you’ll just see blur and flaws. Because if this the jury is still out for me on 4K. I have tried 4K Netflix on a decent connection though and...yeah, the discs ain’t going anywhere right away. Netflix at 4K is a joke at today’s bit rates.

High res audio...it’s a download world now. Most stuff doesn’t get an actual SACD or DVD-A release so those are now “collectables” or something.

I feel things are in a state of flux and will continue to be. There are less than 100 decent classic films on all the major services combined. Eventually people are going to wonder where the hell all the movies went. A huge amount if stuff is not for sale at the moment. It’s odd, really.

Great point about the internet Zeta. My streaming quality is still pretty damn bad. Plus my connection randomly dips and I never get my promised speeds.

Is Netflix 4K at BD quality yet?

Overall streaming doesn't really interest me, but 95% of everything worth watching is on LD anyway.

Lawrence of Arabia is STUNNING.

4K streaming is like broadcast quality HD. HD streaming is like a well mastered upscaled DVD. SD steams are pretty much a tad better than VCD.

Part of the reason is heavy compression, aggressive error/jitter correction and low bitrates. I don’t believe most of the catalog titles are optimized for streaming either. These titles needs to be remastered for the anticipated losses during streaming. DVDs were pretty bad in the beginning when upscaled but later titles upscaled fairly well due to better master optimized for HD displays.

Another issues is mediocre playback hardware for streaming. All these streaming services decelop their app/software in house. Currently none of them offers source direct/native output. You may be using a roku, tivo or apple tv to access the app but the app is handed to these manufacturers by the streaming service (netflix, prime etc). Deinterlacing, upscaling, color space conversion and hdr handling/conversion are all done in the app in software. What the streaming device (apple tv, roku etc) does is emulating the software. You can imagine the deinterlacing, scaling and all other processing are mediocre at best. Some devices like tivo allows native resolution output but all other processing is undefeatable and still there. This makes the already mediocre streaming video even worse. Of course the average joe doesn’t care about this in his tv in torch mode and 120 motion set to max.

I plan to buy a 4K BR player, one of those cheap Sony ones, and the only thing 4K I plan to buy (aside from 2001 and LoA again, I suppose) is Blue Planet II. I suppose Blue Planet III when that gets made. That series BLOWS MY MIND and nature photography is actually one use for 4K that makes sense. Things where crazy detail actually matters aren't that common. Human eyes don't really work that way. Our eyes aren't microscopes or SLRs, with perfect clarity and awareness of every thing in the frame. They are awful sensors that mainly scan for differences in contrast and edges. Our visual cortex does the rest. You really only see crazy 4k detail when you pause the video and zoom in or when you focus on one area of the screen and you don't really do that when watching Pretty In Pink or Akira. In a nature doc though you actually are staring at one particular thing, and often times %75 of the frame is useless. I want the highest def penguins and whale sharks, man!

Even at 1080p on high speed Comcast Netflix artifacting is obvious. At 4K (came installed on my 2017 Bravia) the bit rates are somewhere between DVD and BR so...absolutely farcical. You pay $2 extra for that farce, btw. Netflix looks way better than cable or DVD at my house normally but I think its stuck there at this point. I assume audio is f-ing terrible but I've never even used my real home theater for Netflix before. Jeez, I never even thought of that. If its blocky to the naked eye it can't sound that great, right? I usually use headphones and an iPhone to watch Netflix, like at work. Sometimes on my iMac. Its great on those screens but they are small and the audio is 2.0.

I have a handful of 4K titles only because they came bundled with a regular blu-ray that I was actually interested in; Studio Canal released a bunch of John Carpenter movies in Europe that had been previously lacking in good transfers (and I wasn't going to start importing the region locked shout! discs), and the new box set of Blade Runner was easier to get than the old one and it had the same content plus the Final Cut in 4K.

I'm not even planning to get a 4K player because I'm still chugging along with a TV that isn't even full HD, and I don't think my apartment is even big enough for a TV where 4K resolution would actually be sensible.

But, if that ever changes, I'll have something to watch on my new set.

4K is sensible at any size. I have a 21.5” 4K iMac and the difference is hard to describe. I find myself going through all my photos just to see them on this screen. There is little to play otherwise. I’m at a desk though, so I’m like 2’ from the screen.

I guess I tend to be the contrarian/Luddite in these conversations: I'm a disc man.

Finally received my Panasonic 820 4K player over the holidays. I'd say it is a well-built little machine - yes, lighter than previous generations but that's also true of TVs, receivers, and most everything else. I have a 55" 4K LED and would say you don't need an enormous screen to note a difference; the 4K transfer of (the original) Predator is the best I've ever seen, the jungle comes alive in a film-like way (although the blu-ray was notoriously bad). Plus, it is giving new life to my DVD collection - the upscaling makes them look close to HD quality.

I have no doubt that at some future point, streaming A/V quality will catch up with discs. Still I'm on the (slightly conspiratorial?) side that hard copies are better:

*Ownership: IMO, Hollywood hates giving up control of IP. By purchasing a download, they still ultimately control the content, and evidently have the right to retract it, alter it, or start charging a per view fee for something we supposedly own.

*Integrity: Related to the above, I'm worried about artistic integrity. Online, they can remove dialogue or even entire scenes deemed offensive to current political mores; as a society I think we just have to realize that every film is a product of its time. I'm pretty sure they won't break into my home and rewrite my optical discs!

*Features: Maybe I'm wrong, but streaming is mostly dispensing with special features? DVDs brought the previously niche commentary tracks, documentaries, design sketches and other supplements into the mainstream. Now, we're headed backward to VHS style movie only - -

*Selection: I'm still debating a Netflix account, but it's been widely reported that you can find say, all of Adam Sandler's work there but practically nothing from Orson Welles or even Woody Allen. C'mon!

*Reliability. More & more demands are being placed on wireless networks, meaning more dropouts. 'Free' movies on my Smart TV have mandatory commercials. Assuming it's been properly cared for, a disc will always play w/o interruption.

To me, the emphasis on streaming seems to be from without - the entertainment industry. I don't necessarily see it as a good thing for consumers. But hey, if they address the above I'm on board!

1st this is NOT I repeat NOT about the revival of LD in anyway.

There are so many issues with this.
On one had they are just changing their formats like when then went from vinyl to CD, they literally killed off vinyl.

I remember when I had a record player, it was bought new and was about 15 years old at the time, I wanted to get a new stylus and went to any and all
record stores in NYC, NONE had any replacements for any LP players and all told me to toss it.

A few years later Ebay came along and then you could get old stock and now they even make new stylus and players.

Same thing happened with VHS to DVD, everybody got rid of their VHS to buy DVD and now they got rid of their DVD to get Bluray etc.

The great thing is that it makes stuff so much cheaper.
I bought all 3 volumes of Star Trek TOS DVD on ebay for 20 bucks with free shipping, these were around 80 bucks each when new, or were they 100
I'm just glad I didn't pay that for them.

So if they stop making media and everybody jumps aboard the stream train then great, it just makes stuff cheaper for me that I wanted to
own but didn't want to pay stupid prices for.

These formats will never go away since they are super main stream and not like LD which was for a very select group when it first came out.


DVD and Bluray may go away but there are billions of players out there and they will always be able to make a cheap decent player.
Hell, look at those top end CD players from China with tubes in them, they will make DVD and Bluray players the same.

So if anything they go away for 5 years and then they start making players again since any computer can burn DVDs.

Fwiw: Ultraviolet is shutting down.

I was in Target and they carry CDs. I know Best Buy doesn't anymore

Well obviously you can make do with a small screen if you're sitting with your nose glued to it.

My current PC monitor actually does support full HD but I keep the resolution down at 1600x900 because the text and graphics were too small compared to my old monitor that broke down last year.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MHZS-CD88J-Audiophile-Top-Loading-Tube-Output-CD-Player-Silver/391598829558?hash=item5b2d1beff6:g:3r4AAOSwxixZ7mcK:rk:67:pf:0

There used to be a bunch on ebay, this is a cheaper one.

Thanks.

So there's a pre-amp in these CDPs?

I have no idea, I'm not going to spend that type of cash on something from Kong Kong without any warranty backup for a new product.

But then again I'm not going to spend that type of cash for any electronic anymore.

Carver did that ages ago. I can’t remember the model.

I believe I saw a Blu-ray deck somewhere with a tube state pre stage a while ago.

I may be wrong, however I feel that physical media will increase in popularity for the short term. This includes VHS/BETA/LASERDISCS -

As the move toward streaming as "the norm" rambles onward, netflix and their ilk will show just how fragile this medium for viewing media really is.
(Let us not even mention limited selections ! )
Once the broadband gets more and more overloaded, streaming of content will suffer the price of heavy traffic every evening at peak viewing hours.
Especially around major urban centers.
Already seeing this fragile razors edge of broadband usage in the rural area I occupy. 5G may change this broadband limitation, time will tell.......

When outages occur via broadband (and they do happen semi frequently in my area, including cell phone application !) guess who is still watching movies unimpeded ?

Technology will advance to the next evolution and this too shall pass ........

I am wrong a great deal of the time when speculating about the future. No crystal ball (that functions !) ;^) on my shelves !

However, media you can hold, ie : games cartridges, game discs, dvd's, VHS/BETA tapes, 8 Track, Cassettes, DAT, LP's, and of course the glorious LaserDisc has held favor not just with the populous that has or is dying off in great numbers. The youth have and will eventually discern the value of physical media vs. intangible media. Gotta give young peeps some credit where due. Once young adults and even young children get their sea legs and get a whiff of physical media the cat is out of the bag.

This is and has been my opinion based on raising a young person now in their early 20's ......
(I may be wrong and in a few short years physical media may be gone the way of the dinosaurs, kaput, end, finis ........) I do not really know....

Anyone reading this check the dumpsters around my location when I expire lol !


Shout out to all the membership that still finds enjoyment spinning these shiny metallic platters !

("liner notes, Gatefold Jacket, what is that ?" says a citizen of the near future lol )

Cheers mates

(copied from another thread .... )