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 Post subject: [CLD-160K] being picky about discs
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2019, 20:49 
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I have a Pioneer CLD-160K, a PAL/NTSC karaoke player built on the same chassis as the CLD-1950 - the video board is the same with different connectors populated, and it has an extra board stacked on top for the karaoke audio stuff. It came from a local pub, so I suspect it's had a bit of a hard life...

It plays most Laserdiscs (and all CDs) quite happily, but there are a few that it doesn't like - you put the disc in, it tries to focus at the LD and CD positions, and doesn't succeed at either, so it shows "no disc" on the display rather than spinning up the disc. One example is "The Last Waltz" (NJEL-99354, NTSC/CLV), where side 1 plays every time, and side 2 won't play at all! Both sides play fine on my Sony LDP-3600D. Some discs will work sometimes but not always.

I've brought the CLD-160K up in test mode (the jumper is to the west of the CPU, buried under all the karaoke cables!), and it will play The Last Waltz side 2 quite happily in test mode if you give it a few tries to focus. While side 1 is playing, the tilt value is shown as T-7:N or T-8:N; on side 2, it's around T-4:N; otherwise, the test display is the same for both sides: TRK-ON TS-0 NR-OFF MODE-00:00 K-FF M-7 S-LD F-1.

I can't find a service manual for this chassis, but I've gone through the alignment procedure from the CLD-1700 manual as far as the fine centring adjustment, which didn't result in any major changes from how it was already aligned and hasn't fixed the problem. As a sanity check, I've also checked that the centring/TAN screws are set about halfway between the points where a CD stops playing (as I think Kurtis suggested in another thread). I did note that the signal at the RF test point is about 200mV peak to peak, which is a bit lower than the manual says it should be.

Any ideas for what I should try next (e.g. is it worth adjusting the tilt offset or RF level)? I have a scope but I don't have a service remote or small test disc...

Cheers!
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 Post subject: Re: CLD-160K being picky about discs
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2019, 21:12 
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When you put side 2 of last waltz in first does it play side 2??
If so sounds like its slipping and not reading the TOC.

Didn't read all of above, watching Evangelion right now.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-160K] being picky about discs  Topic is solved
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 22:44 
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After a bit of thought (low RF level... low pickup output?), I tried turning up the FOCUS GAIN pot about an eighth of a turn - and this seems to have fixed it! It'll now focus happily on the discs that didn't work before. I'll leave adjusting the RF level until I can borrow a better scope...

rein-o: thanks for the suggestion! I did wonder initially whether it was positioning the pickup correctly, but that didn't seem to be the problem - you can see the pickup from the side of the player in operation and it was going to the right locations (it has microswitches to detect the LD and CD scan positions, and you can see these working in test mode).
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-160K] being picky about discs
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 00:56 
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So my previous adjustment wasn't quite enough...

This week I got a copy of Criterion's CAV "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" (CC1241L), which has various frames with stop codes to implement the special edition features. For the last few minutes of each side, the CLD-160K would correctly go into still mode, but then slip forward a frame at a time, getting faster and faster as it got nearer to the end - presumably because the tracking wasn't staying on the right track. Turning up the FOCUS GAIN pot a bit further has fixed this (I did try TRKG GAIN as well but it didn't make a difference). So, if you're following the advice above, find a CAV disc and check you can get a still frame reliably near the end of a long side.
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 Post subject: Re: [CLD-160K] being picky about discs
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 09:55 
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Not sure if this might mean anything to this particular post but every now and then it’s not unusual to have some “disc to player” incompatibility.

I know with my Pioneer CLD-3030, there have always been a few discs (mainly CAV if I recall) having issues getting into play mode on a particular side. The symptom would start as a constant increase and decrease in disc speed as the laser pick up was trying to read the beginning of the disc. It could get really bad to the point that it would take ten tries before it actually catches or not at all (I would have to remove the disc, shut the player down, turn it back on, and then the disc may play just like that).

For some time, I though (and still believe to some degeee) the issue started around 1991 when the “90” series players came out and Pioneer was working on a new software algorithm that had something to do with identifying PAL vs NTSC discs and it basically caused all sorts of playback issues (Fantasia CAV I think was one of the titles with the issue along with several Image Entertainment titles).

Anyway, something to consider because I would be a bit aprehensive about tinkering with my players if there may be nothing wrong with it at all. It just might be a simple disc issue.
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