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therussian
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 28 Dec 2020, 03:53 |
True fan |
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Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 16:42 Posts: 477 Location: Netherlands Has thanked: 13 times Been thanked: 100 times
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signofzeta wrote: What’s awful about them? They are heavy, big, dangerous ( because if a tube goes boom then so will you ) and their picture quality does not come near the quality of what a proper upscaler and a modern lcd can deliver.
_________________ Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqIv0_dV3_pjvruObJcukOw
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rein-o
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 28 Dec 2020, 16:28 |
Jedi Master |
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Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05 Posts: 8105 Location: Dullaware Has thanked: 1219 times Been thanked: 844 times
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therussian wrote: They are heavy, big, dangerous ( because if a tube goes boom then so will you )
I don't know about that, unless its a soviet TV set, I've heard of those blowing up but don't know if its true or a story.
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deadlegion
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 29 Dec 2020, 09:29 |
Advanced fan |
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Joined: 02 Aug 2019, 02:29 Posts: 660 Location: Australia Has thanked: 52 times Been thanked: 85 times
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rein-o wrote: therussian wrote: They are heavy, big, dangerous ( because if a tube goes boom then so will you )
I don't know about that, unless its a soviet TV set, I've heard of those blowing up but don't know if its true or a story. Most tube tv's have a reinforced front (laminated or some other type of strengthening) so if they blow it will be another section that will be a weaker point (inside case and not facing viewer). Really old tube tv's are not reinforced at all, but we're talking early B&W sets and probably the early colour types. Yes even American sets were like that. A lot of the early consumer tube tv's probably also had higher radiation emissions. All emit radiation but it isn't really a problem unless you're less than a couple of feet away for decades of viewing. Soviet bloc I have no idea. I guess it's possible they kept making sets that weren't reinforced but idk.
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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 29 Dec 2020, 16:42 |
Jedi Knight |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 5983 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1286 times Been thanked: 1102 times
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therussian wrote: signofzeta wrote: What’s awful about them? They are heavy, big, dangerous ( because if a tube goes boom then so will you ) and their picture quality does not come near the quality of what a proper upscaler and a modern lcd can deliver. I knew your reasons would be lame but “dangerous” takes the cake. If you can’t stand watching a display because of how big and heavy it is (?) that’s one thing but saying someone is going to be killed by an exploding tube is just an outright fabrication, an untruth, a lie. You are lying or someone very convincing lied to you and you are repeating it out of ignorance, both are extremely offensive. You’ve gone past the fanboy tipping point when you won’t accept physical reality if it gets in the way of your cause. And as for picture quality, a lot of that is obvious. There are no 4K HDR tubes, obviously. From a picture standpoint though, IMO, the worse TVs EVER in the history of television were the big box store LCDs that everyone ran out and bought in the early 2000s. The ones that have stupid resolutions that don’t scale easily from or to anything else. The ones that only have analog inputs and seem to have only maybe two shades of “red” and of course sub-laptop speakers. Those are for sure the worst...and those are the LCDs that killed off tubes forever. Not the good ones that eventually came to be. The speakers...”Yeah, I’ve had ten TVs on that stand and watched them them all from this chair, but NOW can’t hear the thing from here?” That’s another one of those practical things nobody ever talks about anymore. If you have an AVR it doesn’t matter but the built in speakers with flat TVs are friggn horrible. Thin unlistenable whistling is about all that comes out of my 4K Sony but my “final days of CRT” Sony has an actual subwoofer inside of it. Night and day.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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gypsy
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 29 Dec 2020, 21:55 |
Absolute fan |
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Joined: 23 Jun 2017, 01:55 Posts: 1693 Location: United States Has thanked: 1127 times Been thanked: 346 times
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That was probably the worst for me, and I have micomsoft (not framemeister but still), OSSC, DVDO (many models) gear still (no point in selling, and most of them are in use for various things). The colors, the black level, black crushing, all too annoying for me with early LCD. What are you using for upscaling/line multiplication? I've never been happy with the result but especially in the case of PS2. I'm not looking to criticize your choice at all, just curious.
I was a bit happier when I tried some higher $ more recent monitors (limited connections but doesn't impact me because they were bought for other purposes, I just figured I would test old stuff on em). I never did much beyond testing though. I played through multiple long PS1/2 games this year and it always just ends up being on the late model Sony widescreen CRT that I have. I understand most people not wanting a TV like that though. It's 200 pounds for starters. The most important thing is just enjoying the games/movies. CRT, early LCD, 4K, OLED, QLED, projector, plasma etc... It's all just a means to watch or play something.
_________________ I have added a shop on lddb.com. Check it out, items are priced to sell.
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gypsy
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 30 Dec 2020, 01:16 |
Absolute fan |
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Joined: 23 Jun 2017, 01:55 Posts: 1693 Location: United States Has thanked: 1127 times Been thanked: 346 times
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signofzeta wrote: The problem with the PS2 is that I don’t know what “good” is. Sony seemed to genuinely love that hyper aliased to hell look on everything. I once played on that actual PS2 TV that Sony made and it still looked like that.
And when it comes to 2D stuff half the time the weird artifacts are built in (“fake low res”) and there is no fixing them. Sony systems just do not age well. The PS2 definitely isn't great. The best solution is emulating it in all honesty you can fix a lot but I'm just not into that. Despite the graphical issues that is one of my favorite eras of gaming. I recently played through Devil Summoner on PS2, what a fantastic game.
_________________ I have added a shop on lddb.com. Check it out, items are priced to sell.
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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 30 Dec 2020, 02:54 |
Jedi Knight |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 5983 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1286 times Been thanked: 1102 times
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Maybe some day Analog will make a PS2 that fixes all these issues. Well, the 3D ones. The always blurry no matter what look of 2D games is probably unfixable though.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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cplusplus
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 07 Jan 2021, 01:36 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18 Posts: 1518 Has thanked: 448 times Been thanked: 587 times
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harlock wrote: I think the gaming community has been a force for good in preserving CRTs for the future Absolutely. I started servicing and RGB modding them to help fund my laserdisc habit. I had to buy a small air compressor just to dust them (very satisfying by the way). Dangerous to work on though- especially when you have to make adjustments on the tube or board while its powered on.
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svwees
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 07 Jan 2021, 04:38 |
Serious fan |
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Joined: 27 Jun 2006, 18:20 Posts: 222 Location: Netherlands Has thanked: 0 time Been thanked: 2 times
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signofzeta wrote: ... From a picture standpoint though, IMO, the worse TVs EVER in the history of television were the big box store LCDs that everyone ran out and bought in the early 2000s. The ones that have stupid resolutions that don’t scale easily from or to anything else. The ones that only have analog inputs and seem to have only maybe two shades of “red” and of course sub-laptop speakers. Those are for sure the worst...and those are the LCDs that killed off tubes forever. Not the good ones that eventually came to be. ...
That was the reason that after fiddling about with those crappy lcd's at the day, i ended up buying the Philips 28PW9551 HDMI capable CRT as late as in 2006, but it had all the inputs from antenna to HDMI and delivered a beautiful image on analog as well as on dgital sources. It is very pleasant to watch laserdiscs as well as watch HD content on it (albeit not really HD, it is still sharp, but foremost the colours very nice).
_________________ My Laserdiscs Philips CDV 185, Pioneer D925/D515/PD 707V, Sony CDP 301V, Yamaha CDV S100/CDV M777
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jd213
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 07 Jan 2021, 13:25 |
Serious fan |
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Joined: 13 Jul 2012, 10:29 Posts: 162 Location: Japan Has thanked: 28 times Been thanked: 35 times
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cplusplus wrote: harlock wrote: I think the gaming community has been a force for good in preserving CRTs for the future Absolutely. I started servicing and RGB modding them to help fund my laserdisc habit. Ah, I've been toying with the idea of doing this myself, but it's probably beyond my capabilities. Where are you located? I'd probably want to get another CRT for use in the US when I visit my relatives (assuming things mostly go back to normal).
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cplusplus
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 07 Jan 2021, 21:09 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18 Posts: 1518 Has thanked: 448 times Been thanked: 587 times
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jd213 wrote: Ah, I've been toying with the idea of doing this myself, but it's probably beyond my capabilities. It's not too bad- definitely easier than LD servicing.
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signofzeta
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 07 Jan 2021, 21:55 |
Jedi Knight |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2010, 09:44 Posts: 5983 Location: Ann Arbor Has thanked: 1286 times Been thanked: 1102 times
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I'm on vacation at the moment and I'm in the process of building a 19" rack into a "super duper super gun" of sorts which will be eventually able to play any arcade PCB I may want to own on it. The whole thing will be on wheels with its own monitor and only one place to plug it in. I've been collecting parts for this project for longer than I'm prepared to admit. It takes "standard" DB15 sticks via ports in the front. At this point the video is done and as good as its likely to ever get. RGB is available via SCART. A NeoBitz (no longer made) encoder makes that into component, s-video, and composite. A RetroTink https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/retrotink-2x-scart outputs 480p over HDMI with fake scanlines optional. I'm good for any TV made in my life through all the ones likely to be made in the rest of my life. DONE. The video looks amazing from every output. This being an arcade PCB running on a OG transformer based PSU the RGB is flawless and a perfect base for all the conversion. The cart has a CRT on top and that's what I plan to use for as long as I can find CRTs to put on top. The HDMI stuff is for the future or for when I want to also sent out to a larger display. The larger display I tested it with is my 2017 4K Bravia, a very good TV which I have mentioned before being great for LD. With the fake scanlines on it arcade games look INCREDIBLE. However...it still looks better on the 19" Toshiba sitting on the cart over s-video or component (they look the same, really). The CRT has better motion, that is, when the guys in Metal Slug 3 move they are easier to see despite LCD's supposedly having the advantage in screen response. When they move on the Bravia they distort a little more. Also the colors are deeper on the tube and, in a rare change, the CRT is way brighter because with fake scanlines you basically have half the pixels turned off. The real killer though is latency which is horrendous. I haven't devised a way to measure it but with both displays running its easily a frame or maybe three, which is a total deal breaker for fighting games and shooters...which is most of what I plan to play. Hopefully I'll find a lower lag LCD before all my SD CRTs die. VERDICT: CRT - The most valuable part of the arcade cart is the HDMI doodad that gives you worse video than a free TV.
_________________ All about LD care, inner sleeves, shrink wrap, etc.
https://youtu.be/b3O-vHpHRpM
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rein-o
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 07 Jan 2021, 23:36 |
Jedi Master |
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Joined: 03 May 2004, 19:05 Posts: 8105 Location: Dullaware Has thanked: 1219 times Been thanked: 844 times
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cplusplus wrote: jd213 wrote: Ah, I've been toying with the idea of doing this myself, but it's probably beyond my capabilities. It's not too bad- definitely easier than LD servicing. The real thing that kills CRTs is heat, boards and parts will have more damage due to drying out. Caps are the main thing I remember in arcade CRTs to go bad, but if its too old then the solder traces will come off the board with heat when trying to replace caps. Other than that as long as you get parts know what positive and negative are and don't shock the s**t out of yourself they are pretty easy. Luckily I never shocked myself but was always extra careful when working on the monitors.
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cplusplus
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Post subject: Re: Are CRT TV in demand in the Laser Disc community? Posted: 07 Jan 2021, 23:49 |
Hardcore fan |
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Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 03:18 Posts: 1518 Has thanked: 448 times Been thanked: 587 times
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rein-o wrote: Luckily I never shocked myself but was always extra careful when working on the monitors. I was out of town for a few days last month and came back and began working on a Trinitron I was halfway done with. I forgot I had plugged it into my main power strip before I left (very dumb of me) since I always plug them into my isolation transformer. I turned that strip on and thinking the TV had been off for several days, I grabbed the power supply and took a nice dosage of voltage. I have since put the isolation transformer and main strip on opposite ends of my bench. In regards to hardiness of Trinitrons, I was given one that had been left in a ditch for probably years. Severe rust, boards caked in mud probably 1/2in thick. Took it apart, sprayed the boards with a high pressure water hose nozzle and let it dry for a few days. Turned right on and the picture looked good other than the composite video connector had partially detached from the board so I had to hold the cord in.
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