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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 03:41 
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I found it and didn't pay too much attention :lol:
Saw his post earlier but again no attention to the post :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 02:28 
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found this it has a player and some educational discs
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-LaserV ... Swmetccxui
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 17:49 
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I bought that Fun & Games disc. It's a late Discovision title so the quality is completely random. I got mine for only two dollars so I'm not too bothered by some minor rot. It's kind of daft tho that it uses so many still frames but has no stop codes.

Most of those other titles definitely seem interesting, but I doubt any of them use laserbarcode.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 20:43 
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Yeah. It seems like when people go to sell educational stuff they don’t exactly go out of their way to show you what they have. I can’t really tell what any of that is but I agree most won’t have codes.

That makes me think...how hard is it to just print Laser barcodes? Like to make the CAV version of Aliens SE “educational” by just figuring out the frame numbers for everything and printing codes for “Xenomorph puppet test real” and stuff like that. Seems easy but then I don’t have the software one would need for this. Someone who understands bar codes could probably figure it out if there wasn’t already a product that did that back in the day.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 21:54 
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would it have to be programmed on the disc already or does the barcode act like a bookmark in a book that you can flip to without having to program the book?
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 22:10 
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As far as I know the barcode is just a frame number. I’ve never used a Laserbarcode system but I don’t think there is anything different about the discs. The Laserbarcode reader seems like it just enters what would normally be a sequence of events.

Hit Chapter/Time. Hit 3, 4, 1, 5, 1, 9. Hit Play. The player will now go to frame 34,519 which is a picture of a four chambered heart. That kind of thing. The barcode makes that a lot faster and almost error proof.

Like I said though, I’ve never used one myself.

Since Pioneer developed the system but anyone could publish Laserbarcode discs there must have been commonly available barcode software that could be used for this or they maybe had their own package. Something that ran on ATs and Apple IIs probably. Or perhaps you sent the frames numbers to the manufacturer and they made the barcodes when they pressed the disc for you.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2019, 16:48 
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signofzeta wrote:
That makes me think...how hard is it to just print Laser barcodes? Like to make the CAV version of Aliens SE “educational” by just figuring out the frame numbers for everything and printing codes for “Xenomorph puppet test real” and stuff like that. Seems easy but then I don’t have the software one would need for this. Someone who understands bar codes could probably figure it out if there wasn’t already a product that did that back in the day.

Check this out. http://www.geodatasys.com/barcode.htm

They appear to have the software for sale, but you should contact them about the actual stock. Maybe you can even convince them to give you a discount since it's such an old item, maybe they'll just be happy to be rid of it.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2019, 16:50 
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that might not work even if you had an old computer. It is worth a try though.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2019, 17:04 
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Why wouldn't it work?

I mean besides something obvious like the floppies having gone bad due to magnetic interference or something.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2019, 19:25 
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mainly that and finding a printer that you can use with an old computer that has drivers and such but you don't know if you don't try
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2019, 21:16 
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I actually know a guy who is bit of a vintage computer power collector, Tempest at Atariage. I should maybe just ask him about old bar codes in general. He’s like a half hour away from me. If necessary he probably has an entire Apple II with dot matrix printer I could use.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2019, 21:28 
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takeshi666 wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
That makes me think...how hard is it to just print Laser barcodes? Like to make the CAV version of Aliens SE “educational” by just figuring out the frame numbers for everything and printing codes for “Xenomorph puppet test real” and stuff like that. Seems easy but then I don’t have the software one would need for this. Someone who understands bar codes could probably figure it out if there wasn’t already a product that did that back in the day.

Check this out. http://www.geodatasys.com/barcode.htm

They appear to have the software for sale, but you should contact them about the actual stock. Maybe you can even convince them to give you a discount since it's such an old item, maybe they'll just be happy to be rid of it.


Thanks for the link. I’ll give this a shot. If it’s made for Win 3.1 it’ll probably run on 98 and I’m sure I can get that going. My friend may have a better shot with the Mac version though. I guess it’s Hypercard based and he has a couple of machines from that era that run.

Can someone explain the difference between LB 1 and LB 2?
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2019, 22:46 
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xtempo wrote:
mainly that and finding a printer that you can use with an old computer that has drivers and such but you don't know if you don't try

Well depending on how they're actually produced, there's no reason you couldn't simply transfer them onto another, more modern computer with a printer, especially if it's just an image file rather than some proprietary format. Seeing the description says "or pasted into any Windows application", that presumably includes paint. And BMP is supported by every version of Windows.

Now when it comes to actually transferring the files, that's where the real trouble arises - Windows 7 couldn't even find a Windows XP computer in LAN when I tried to hook them up so I seriously doubt a modern version of Windows would find a PC running 98, and 98 doesn't even support anything but the most primitive USB memory devices (good luck finding those), so the only way you could do it is by burning them onto a CD-RW!
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 00:07 
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you are right.

I don't know the difference between LB 1or 2 but I think LB 2 can also do LB 1 but I'm not positive.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 00:16 
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takeshi666 wrote:
xtempo wrote:
mainly that and finding a printer that you can use with an old computer that has drivers and such but you don't know if you don't try

Well depending on how they're actually produced, there's no reason you couldn't simply transfer them onto another, more modern computer with a printer, especially if it's just an image file rather than some proprietary format. Seeing the description says "or pasted into any Windows application", that presumably includes paint. And BMP is supported by every version of Windows.

Now when it comes to actually transferring the files, that's where the real trouble arises - Windows 7 couldn't even find a Windows XP computer in LAN when I tried to hook them up so I seriously doubt a modern version of Windows would find a PC running 98, and 98 doesn't even support anything but the most primitive USB memory devices (good luck finding those), so the only way you could do it is by burning them onto a CD-RW!


Windows 98 supports many many USB devices. That was kind of it’s thing. It had USB and didn’t crash every four hours like 95 did. It will work fine with some USB 1 memory things I have around here. It will NOT work with any modern printer whatsoever but you can still use a floppy made in a 1987 Mac SE on any computer that accepts a 1.44MB floppy which every 98 machine had and even now USB floppy drives are common. The floppy will probably hold hundreds of barcodes. Burners are more universal now, assuming the 20 year old IDE burner in the 98 machine can made the disc.

I could also run some old Mac emulator on my new Mac and print it from that. I’ll figure it out.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 00:53 
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signofzeta wrote:
Windows 98 supports many many USB devices. That was kind of it’s thing. It had USB and didn’t crash every four hours like 95 did. It will work fine with some USB 1 memory things I have around here. It will NOT work with any modern printer whatsoever but you can still use a floppy made in a 1987 Mac SE on any computer that accepts a 1.44MB floppy which every 98 machine had and even now USB floppy drives are common. The floppy will probably hold hundreds of barcodes. Burners are more universal now, assuming the 20 year old IDE burner in the 98 machine can made the disc.

I could also run some old Mac emulator on my new Mac and print it from that. I’ll figure it out.

Windows 98 has a nominal USB support - meaning it recognizes you plugged in a device, but still needs a driver for it, something which practically no modern USB stick comes with. Mine wouldn't even recognize a freakin' USB keyboard.

Floppies are actually the best option. Old CD burners can be really dodgy. It's kind of funny that despite all the flak it gets, the old floppy disk is a remarkably robust format.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 03:17 
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When all the two main OSs finally got good, XP and OSX, we started to see “class compliant” as a thing. Game controllers and MIDI controllers were the most common but I think effectively cameras did it first. No drivers, no inturupts, no power cable, very cool.

Now though...sometimes you plug that same “class compliant” thing into a new machine and suddenly it doesn’t work. Too compliant! Utter BS. I’m not surprised even keyboards are subject to this. It’s deeply offensive, the planned obsolescence in the tech world. I have instruments older than me that still work because they were built before Silicon Valley had a chance to buy the company and install a kill switch into it. In the 90s and 00s it seemed like a great thing that PC programs were killing hardware sequencers and portastudios because everything was so cheap and so powerful and universal but now...my Yamaha QYs are still kicking %100 but I can’t run my favorite wave editor from the 00s on anything because I’ve owned 7 computers since then and every upgrade drops features (not something they tell you enthusiastically at the point of sale).

However, compared to USB 3.1/3.2 and the newly announced USB 4 that is actually Thunderbolt over a USB-C cable it’s like the difference between Checkers and Chess. We’re in for a really bumpy ride with that crap. Every clarification makes things way more complicated. I’m going to treat USB cables are proprietary to the device they run because not every cable works with every device currently in production. It’s nonsense.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2019, 17:09 
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blam1 wrote:
kid_dynamo wrote:
Quote:
Also, two things I learned. Apparently Pioneer made DVD decks that also use the laser barcode system although by that time you’d really think a PC would be best for the entire operation...I mean, that would have been post-Windows 95 at that point.


I actually picked up a Pioneer V7300 and V8000 on ebay a while back. The V7300 has laserbarcode functionality and the V8000 does not. I've not found any DVDs that use it yet and I have little doubt there are very few to speak of. Their both very solid machines as you would expect, all BNC connectors, RS232C and the V8000 has DVI which makes it practical for use today.


I've never heard of the V7300 (LD-V7300 or CLD-V7300). Can you double-check the model number?

There are 3 flavors of the LD-V8000, and 2 flavors of Barcodes. Players with SN KJ3906076 and up have LB1 built in. Players with SN ME3912276 and up have LB2 built in. Any player prior to ME3912276 can be EPROM upgraded to support LB2. I have no idea how to tell if the EPROM upgrade has been applied to the player.

I meant the DVD-V7300 and DVD-V8000, industrial DVD players the former of which uses the same laserbarcode 2 system. Apparently there were DVDs that used it though I have never seen any.
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 Post subject: Re: School Me On Educational Laserdiscs
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2019, 05:31 
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Did some digging just now - the second edition of the DVD Demystified disk has them - https://dvddemystified.com/files/DVDDem ... rcodes.pdf

There's also a flag set to enable the compatible mode in the DVD-V player http://qa.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe ... TxtRet.pdf and http://qa.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe ... vs_DVD.pdf shows the audio track mapping... I don't think there are more conversion specs available, and the information may have been lost with the closure of Pioneer's media division.

7100/7300 are PAL versions of the 7200/7400.
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