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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 13:50 
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So, I received the first prototype today and I'm very impressed. It seems much stronger than the original part.

Here is 2 pictures:

Image
Image

When I'll be back home I'll try to assemble the holder with the gears on the pickup.
Maybe some sizes will need to be ajusted, but this first result is promising

I'll let you know my results :)
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 15:18 
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OK So what is the cost to make this one???

I don't have or need the piece but its nice to know that we can get them made.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:01 
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That looks very good! Defects are pretty significant on the one shaft I see but as long as you smooth out the shafts a bit it it could work with lots of grease. It will be better and holding grease with all that porosity.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:24 
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takeshi666 wrote:
I was thinking more in terms of reverse engineering a new mold from an existing part. I just wonder where the mold would actually split so the cast can be removed, and how much additional work it'd still require, like drilling the necessary holes in it.


I see what you are saying. To re-cast it in halves, and yeah I don’t know exactly where the seam would be but it would be possible. The original part is made from a drawing into a steel mold and the plastic is injected at like 1000+psi. You can’t make those kinds of molds out of silicone and without that pressure you can’t make strong parts. It’s a labor intensive process for the mill and the hand cleanup afterwards but it does produce thousands of perfect parts every time for pennies.

There are newer resins that will cure at zero pressure and behave closer to thermoplastics but I haven’t tried them. I’ve been meaning to but not for a part like this since I think it’s doomed.

Let’s see how this part he made works. I’m worried it’s maybe too hard/brittle and the friction will be different in which case it should just need to have metal pins installed into it.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 16:29 
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The plastic is a little bit elastic.
If you want you can check some videos of the process, exactly it was made with the "Multijet Fusion" technology from HP, the plastic is PA12 polyamide.
There is some videos on YouTube.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 18:04 
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Hope it does work out :).

If so, I will save a good number of post 1995 players. :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 20:44 
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signofzeta wrote:
I see what you are saying. To re-cast it in halves, and yeah I don’t know exactly where the seam would be but it would be possible. The original part is made from a drawing into a steel mold and the plastic is injected at like 1000+psi. You can’t make those kinds of molds out of silicone and without that pressure you can’t make strong parts. It’s a labor intensive process for the mill and the hand cleanup afterwards but it does produce thousands of perfect parts every time for pennies.

I was thinking of casting it from some other material anyway, like aluminum, which wouldn't require injection molding pressures, just tolerance to extreme temperatures.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 20:48 
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Just tested to assemble it.
I'm happy, there's just a last thing to modify to have the perfect replacement part !
There is only one axe to re-ajust but it seems to do the job !

I'll do the changes the week-end and will order a new prototype. Next week the last version should be ready !
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 23:27 
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The thing that has baffled me is the difference between the final drive gear on the LD pickup vs the DVD pickup. On the DVD, the final gear is split in two with spring tension between the two halves. Any idea what is up with this?
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 15 Mar 2019, 14:13 
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feeling happy about myself now ;)

Bought 20 spares 2 years ago along with belts etc. They we're dead cheap straight from Japan trough Pioneer Belgium

Nice job on the molding btw.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 07 May 2019, 01:28 
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kris wrote:
feeling happy about myself now ;)

Bought 20 spares 2 years ago along with belts etc. They we're dead cheap straight from Japan trough Pioneer Belgium

Nice job on the molding btw.


I sure wish I did that when I needed parts back in 2013. I have two D604’s. One I have for parts as the M holder broke. The partial working D604 I’m hoping isn’t completely broke, but we definitely need a good source to keep these players going. Hopefully we hear back from miskia, soon.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 07 May 2019, 03:31 
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takeshi666 wrote:
signofzeta wrote:
I see what you are saying. To re-cast it in halves, and yeah I don’t know exactly where the seam would be but it would be possible. The original part is made from a drawing into a steel mold and the plastic is injected at like 1000+psi. You can’t make those kinds of molds out of silicone and without that pressure you can’t make strong parts. It’s a labor intensive process for the mill and the hand cleanup afterwards but it does produce thousands of perfect parts every time for pennies.

I was thinking of casting it from some other material anyway, like aluminum, which wouldn't require injection molding pressures, just tolerance to extreme temperatures.


Casting aluminum that small and precise is a job for masters. Very very hard...some pressure would help. Maybe zinc...but honestly I’d try to avoid making the part stronger than OEM. That can lead to unforeseen issues from my experience. In today’s world parts like that, if made of metal, would be made using a powdered metal forging.

blam1 wrote:
The thing that has baffled me is the difference between the final drive gear on the LD pickup vs the DVD pickup. On the DVD, the final gear is split in two with spring tension between the two halves. Any idea what is up with this?


I’d assume it’s for lash compensation (like the cam gear on a CR TDI VW) or shock mitigation (like the big swinging bridge on the LD-W1) but I don’t have a picture. Probably the laser either moves quicker when reading DVD or it needs more accuracy.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 08 May 2019, 01:06 
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I'm not familiar with that type of plastic but the problem with the original gray MHolder is that it is too hard of a plastic which makes it brittle. The 1779 plastic is softer and allows for shock absorption. The picture of the MHolder does look really good.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2019, 09:09 
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Could you share the 3D model so we could print it ourselves as well?
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 06:06 
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locutus2000 wrote:
Could you share the 3D model so we could print it ourselves as well?


...and upload it to thingiverse or similar?
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2019, 17:20 
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Any updates on this?
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 08:57 
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Found this thread again and thought I could shed some new lights.
I know he has finally made a good reproduction of the M-holder that, he told me, were working perfectly and were more resistant than the originals, he also told me that they had a cost of around 20€ a piece.
But I haven't heard of Miskia since June 2019, I tried to contact him on several occasion (I have his phone number) since but he didn't respond to any of my messages.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2020, 23:26 
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I'm also working on a replacement using resin printing with a custom resin blend. Good results so far. Will be making beta test pieces available (hopefully) soon on the Laserdisc Forever FB group. Link to demonstration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hc0o7DF-eU. Need to tweak dimensions as there seems to be some hang up on the side b transition, but that may just be my beat up test player and not the part. End goal is to make it available at around the price point Pioneer last sold it.
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2020, 04:23 
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I've looked everywhere for a VNL1779. Amazon or eBay don't even have one...My LD now gets E0 errors just after finishing off side 4 of Mary Poppins (9871 AS). What a slap in the face for this to happen...If your resurrections have completed the finishing touches, do you think you could send me some?

Worst of all, the disc is still inside the player. How am I s'posed to even get it out?
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 Post subject: Re: Let's resurrect the VNL1779 / VNL1700
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2020, 05:26 
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lonerangerface wrote:
I've looked everywhere for a VNL1779. Amazon or eBay don't even have one...


Although one can find just about anything on ebay, this part is so specific I would bet no buyer would even understand what is being offered. At best, the only way to fix this issue is to hope that miskia makes this part available at some point, salvage a good part from another player, or fix the part with glue (which could be a hit or miss)


lonerangerface wrote:
Worst of all, the disc is still inside the player. How am I s'posed to even get it out?


Based on what you described, it sounds like the player crapped out w/ the laser pick-up on the B side. If you can move the pick-up back down to the A side and then drop the carriage, the tray can then be extracted either on it's own power or moving the loading gear. If that can't be done, you should still be able to remove the clamper assembly and carefully maneuver the disc out of the player.
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