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 Post subject: using Blu-ray recorders from Japan for LDs
PostPosted: 17 May 2019, 18:34 
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So, I’ve been using a Sony BDZ-T55 Blu-ray recorder from Japan to back up LDs here and there for more than 10 years now. This thing is a Made in Japan tank that weighs more than 5kg, It has 2 video/S-video inputs and can record up to 15 MB/s AVC (I believe only Sony recorders do this, as other brands only record external inputs in MPEG-2 last I checked), which has no compression artifacts that I can detect. It won’t record audio input at anything other than 256KB/s Dolby Digital 2.0, but I can always capture the PCM using my computer, then mux it in with the video easily enough since it isn’t copy protected once burned to BDR. The backups are in 480i AVC and seem to be fully Blu-ray compliant, can only fit about 3 hours or so on a BD25 at the maximum bitrate, though.

I’ve been pretty satisfied with the S-Video output of the HLD-X9, but I wish I’d tried using the composite output into the BD recorder sooner! Didn’t think its comb filter would fare better than the internal one in the X9, but looks like it does a really good job. It’s already more than 10 years old, hope it lasts a long while still. I briefly considered getting a Domesday setup, but I don’t think I have the time or patience for decoding the capture and then re-encoding it to AVC or whatever. Maybe some years down the road for some of my LDs that never got a remastered DVD or BD release.

Attached is a capture of the Snell & Wilcox pattern on the Video Essentials LD. Only some rainbows in the 4 corners of the circle in the middle when it's moving, and some weird color artifacts in the top right box, but everything else looks perfect. No other rainbows or dot crawl. The picture is a bit brighter than it would be with a Japanese LD since the BD recorder expects the 0 IRE of NTSC-J, so a JP recorder might not be ideal for backing up US LDs, but in my case I mostly have JP LDs anyway.
Attachment:
BDZ-T55[01].jpg
BDZ-T55[01].jpg [ 143.05 KiB | Viewed 68 times ]


I may have recommended Sony BD recorders for backups before, and these older models are really cheap on Yahoo Japan (less than 1/10th their original price), but unfortunately their menus are in Japanese (maybe some newer ones can be set to English, but I dunno how their comb filters are, and they stopped including S-video inputs a while ago), and shipping from Japan would probably cost a good bit, especially for the older 5kg+ models.
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 Post subject: Re: using Blu-ray recorders from Japan for LDs
PostPosted: 17 May 2019, 18:39 
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I also got another Sony BD recorder a few years later, the BDZ-AT750W (from 2012 I believe). This one has a larger HDD and doesn’t weigh as much (it's also made in China, natch), but it only has one video/S-video input. No big deal, but when I tested out its comb filter, it performed much worse than the BDZ-T55. Attached is a capture. Rainbows and dot crawl galore!

It does have a “VHS dubbing” (“dubbing” is the English loan word used in Japanese to refer to copying a video) feature, which I assume means it has a TBC, but I’ve never used it since I have a Panasonic SVHS deck with an internal TBC. Looking around on the Kakaku.com forums though, someone said that all BD recorders have a TBC since it’s assumed that VHS will be used the most on analog inputs, so I dunno what’s different about this model’s “VHS dubbing” thing. Ah well.

I also have a Panasonic recorder from 2011, and its comb filter doesn’t fare any better than the newer Sony. I mainly got it for its “Anime Mode” that works well with deinterlacing certain Blu-rays mastered in so-called “720i” that came out 10 or so years ago like Spice and Wolf season 1, but thankfully no more anime like that has come out since then, AFAIK.


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BDZ-AT750W[1].jpg
BDZ-AT750W[1].jpg [ 145.04 KiB | Viewed 65 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: using Blu-ray recorders from Japan for LDs
PostPosted: 17 May 2019, 19:16 
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First it was DVD recorders and now Blu-Ray recorders. I see you're using a Sony...

I think for now I'm not going to worry too much about external comb filters since my 2015 Sony XBR-55X810c has this kind of performance via the composite in from my DVL-V888 composite out.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hibcyaw668rw2vh/Sony%20XBR55X810c%20DVLV888%20Composite%20Input.MOV?dl=0



If I have the choice between a $3-4k Lumagen or a $1k 4K TV I think I'd choose the TV. That way I can afford lunch and maybe a coffee :)

Once day in the future the TV will die and I'll be in need of something else because the 100" 8K displays will NOT have a composite input....For that day I have a Faroudja DVP-1010 with DVI out that is very decent.

Test signals are one thing and actual movies another. Movies vary SO much in quality while the test patterns will always be perfect (as can be).

At the end of the day just have fun, spin some movies and smile :)


Attachments:
Sony XBR55X810c Composite Input.jpg
Sony XBR55X810c Composite Input.jpg [ 116.52 KiB | Viewed 58 times ]
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CLD-D704|CLD-D406|DVL-V888|LX-900U|Faroudja DVP-1010|Yamaha APD-1|Sony XBR55X810C
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 Post subject: Re: using Blu-ray recorders from Japan for LDs
PostPosted: 17 May 2019, 19:56 
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There is a really cool video on YT somewhere, Japanese, where someone runs an LD-1000 through a DVD recorder and then runs that through a Blu-ray recorder and the results were very very good. I can’t find it anymore though...
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 Post subject: Re: using Blu-ray recorders from Japan for LDs
PostPosted: 17 May 2019, 23:37 
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I'm surprised BD recorders actually exist.
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 Post subject: Re: using Blu-ray recorders from Japan for LDs
PostPosted: 18 May 2019, 01:02 
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I'm surprised that there would be much advantage of copying an LD to Bluray.
Possibly if you were to do a 3 sided film it may be better?
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 Post subject: Re: using Blu-ray recorders from Japan for LDs
PostPosted: 18 May 2019, 01:23 
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It’s not for making discs, but to do the upconverting.
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 Post subject: Re: using Blu-ray recorders from Japan for LDs
PostPosted: 18 May 2019, 01:34 
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Oh OK that and I guess its more for the RCA to HDMI connectors.
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 Post subject: Re: using Blu-ray recorders from Japan for LDs
PostPosted: 18 May 2019, 05:04 
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signofzeta wrote:
It’s not for making discs, but to do the upconverting.


For me personally it's about having a higher bitrate than DVD MPEG-2 from a DVD recorder, those always seemed to give me compression artifacts. Haven't used one in a long time though.

My BD recorders don't actually upscale anything before burning to disc, the newer one will upscale to 1080p (the older one only goes up to 1080i) when playing but I usually leave it at 480p and let my 4K monitor do the upscaling anyway.
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